Noisy Phone line when Broadband modem switched on.

On Thu, 01 Oct 2009 09:32:41 +0100, M.I.5Ÿ wrote:

> "DontKnow" <DontKnow.TakeThisOut@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:8A6290F3-9094-4DBC-ADFC-22D8EAEFA84E@microsoft.com...
>>
>> Hi Guys,
>>
>> I have a computer with the following fitted:
>>
>> Windows XP with alll latest updates,
>> no ethernet card
>> when the broadband modem is switched on the phone line becomes
>> noisy/hashy and is very difficult ot hear the person speaking on the
>> line. If the broadband modem is switched off the noise then disappears.
>> Their is a filter between the phone line and modem. The broadnband
>> utilises
>> the USB port of the computer.
>>
>> I am thinking that I shoud get an ethernet card to try and fix my
>> problem??
>>
>> Is this the correct solution?? ( I do realise this is a cheap way of
>> fixing
>> this raTHER THAN REPLACING THE MODEM)
>>
>>
> You are listening to the broadband carrier. Every normal telephone on
> the system requires an filter to be inserted in the line to block it.
> In practice if all your telephones meet at one point before connection
> to the incoming line then a single filter at that location will do the
> job. If your broadband modem has been installed correctly then it
> should be connected to the ADSL side of such a filter. It should
> therefore have an unused telephone socket on it.

Do you have the filter on the -modem- line or on the -phone- line? AFAIK,
you can't use a filter on the line coming into the modem.

"Bob" <grafixguy.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote

>> You are listening to the broadband carrier. Every normal telephone on
>> the system requires an filter to be inserted in the line to block it.
>> In practice if all your telephones meet at one point before connection
>> to the incoming line then a single filter at that location will do the
>> job. If your broadband modem has been installed correctly then it
>> should be connected to the ADSL side of such a filter. It should
>> therefore have an unused telephone socket on it.

> Do you have the filter on the -modem- line or on the -phone- line? AFAIK,
> you can't use a filter on the line coming into the modem.

Isn't this thing called a "splitter" not a "filter"?

On my system:

wall outlet >> wire >> splitter >> wire1 >> telephone
>> wire2 >> modem

That is, a single wire from the outlet in the wall goes into the splitter
from which two wires emerge, one of which goes to the telephone and the
other of which goes to the modem.

--
Bob
http://www.kanyak.com

In article <o9Odnbp_SZZ5JlnXnZ2dnUVZ8tednZ2d DeleteThis @giganews.com>,
gezgin DeleteThis @spamcop.net.which.is.not.invalid says...
>
> "Bob" <grafixguy DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote
>
> >> You are listening to the broadband carrier. Every normal telephone on
> >> the system requires an filter to be inserted in the line to block it.
> >> In practice if all your telephones meet at one point before connection
> >> to the incoming line then a single filter at that location will do the
> >> job. If your broadband modem has been installed correctly then it
> >> should be connected to the ADSL side of such a filter. It should
> >> therefore have an unused telephone socket on it.
>
> > Do you have the filter on the -modem- line or on the -phone- line? AFAIK,
> > you can't use a filter on the line coming into the modem.
>
> Isn't this thing called a "splitter" not a "filter"?
>
> On my system:
>
> wall outlet >> wire >> splitter >> wire1 >> telephone
> >> wire2 >> modem
>
> That is, a single wire from the outlet in the wall goes into the splitter
> from which two wires emerge, one of which goes to the telephone and the
> other of which goes to the modem.

DSL uses a FILTER that splits or a inline filter.

The filter has to be connected to ALL devices EXCEPT the DSL modem.


--
You can't trust your best friends, your five senses, only the little
voice inside you that most civilians don't even hear -- Listen to that.
Trust yourself.
spam999free DeleteThis @rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)

Leythos wrote:
> In article <o9Odnbp_SZZ5JlnXnZ2dnUVZ8tednZ2d.TakeThisOut@giganews.com>,
> gezgin.TakeThisOut@spamcop.net.which.is.not.invalid says...
>> "Bob" <grafixguy.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote
>>
>>>> You are listening to the broadband carrier. Every normal telephone on
>>>> the system requires an filter to be inserted in the line to block it.
>>>> In practice if all your telephones meet at one point before connection
>>>> to the incoming line then a single filter at that location will do the
>>>> job. If your broadband modem has been installed correctly then it
>>>> should be connected to the ADSL side of such a filter. It should
>>>> therefore have an unused telephone socket on it.
>>> Do you have the filter on the -modem- line or on the -phone- line? AFAIK,
>>> you can't use a filter on the line coming into the modem.
>> Isn't this thing called a "splitter" not a "filter"?
>>
>> On my system:
>>
>> wall outlet >> wire >> splitter >> wire1 >> telephone
>> >> wire2 >> modem
>>
>> That is, a single wire from the outlet in the wall goes into the splitter
>> from which two wires emerge, one of which goes to the telephone and the
>> other of which goes to the modem.
>
> DSL uses a FILTER that splits or a inline filter.
>
> The filter has to be connected to ALL devices EXCEPT the DSL modem.
>

The terminology and devices tend to vary a bit from country to country.
I was hoping to find some nice pictures, of how to set up ADSL, but
couldn't find a single web site that covered the variations.

This paper, starting at PDF page 61 and figure 3, shows some examples.

http://www.uh.edu/~fzellner/adsl.pdf

For example, where I live, it is Fig.6 on PDF page 68. Each phone has
a low pass filter installed in-line with the phone wire, to cut off the
higher frequencies of ADSL. The path to the ADSL box, has no filter
in line with it, because it needs the high frequencies to work. My
ADSL kit (suitable for installation by the end user) consists of an
ADSL modem and four phone filters. That allows up to four phones to be
used.

The frequency range on the phone cable, is divided into bands. The red band
(4KHz and below) is used for telephone audio. 26KHz to 138KHz handles
uploading. 138KHz to 1104KHz handles downloading, which is why downloading
is faster (asymmetric band plan). For the lucky customers with one of
the higher speed ADSL standards installed at their phone company, the
frequencies stretch out to 2208KHz. (Mine only goes to 1104KHz.) The
phone filter is needed, so only 4KHz and below is passed to the telephone.
So the phone filter keeps the red band, and throws away the blue and green.

http://www.aaisp.net.uk/i/adslfreq.png

ADSL is distance limited, so there is a trade off between distance and
download speed. They can offer a lower speed package, and use double
the amount of wire from the telephone company. But in a lot of cases,
it is lousy house wiring (like in my house), that ruins ADSL. Corrosion
in connectors and the like, can upset it.

Paul

Hi All,

Many thanks for your inputs!!

I do currently have a filter fitted, (it came with the modem as a package),

What happens is that I have the telephone cable go into the filter and the
modem line goes to the modem and off to the computer and alaso there is an
output for a telephone connection. When I insert the telephobne jack into
the filter output and listen to the dial tone , yiou can here the
interference (only when the modem is turned on). I f the modem is turned off
the interference goes away. I don't think that it is the filter, my
thoughts are that it is the modem is creating the interference??

Do you think this is correct??
( I am thinking of purchasing a new modem)


Cheers,

"Paul" wrote:

> Leythos wrote:
> > In article <o9Odnbp_SZZ5JlnXnZ2dnUVZ8tednZ2d.DeleteThis@giganews.com>,
> > gezgin.DeleteThis@spamcop.net.which.is.not.invalid says...
> >> "Bob" <grafixguy.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote
> >>
> >>>> You are listening to the broadband carrier. Every normal telephone on
> >>>> the system requires an filter to be inserted in the line to block it.
> >>>> In practice if all your telephones meet at one point before connection
> >>>> to the incoming line then a single filter at that location will do the
> >>>> job. If your broadband modem has been installed correctly then it
> >>>> should be connected to the ADSL side of such a filter. It should
> >>>> therefore have an unused telephone socket on it.
> >>> Do you have the filter on the -modem- line or on the -phone- line? AFAIK,
> >>> you can't use a filter on the line coming into the modem.
> >> Isn't this thing called a "splitter" not a "filter"?
> >>
> >> On my system:
> >>
> >> wall outlet >> wire >> splitter >> wire1 >> telephone
> >> >> wire2 >> modem
> >>
> >> That is, a single wire from the outlet in the wall goes into the splitter
> >> from which two wires emerge, one of which goes to the telephone and the
> >> other of which goes to the modem.
> >
> > DSL uses a FILTER that splits or a inline filter.
> >
> > The filter has to be connected to ALL devices EXCEPT the DSL modem.
> >
>
> The terminology and devices tend to vary a bit from country to country.
> I was hoping to find some nice pictures, of how to set up ADSL, but
> couldn't find a single web site that covered the variations.
>
> This paper, starting at PDF page 61 and figure 3, shows some examples.
>
> http://www.uh.edu/~fzellner/adsl.pdf
>
> For example, where I live, it is Fig.6 on PDF page 68. Each phone has
> a low pass filter installed in-line with the phone wire, to cut off the
> higher frequencies of ADSL. The path to the ADSL box, has no filter
> in line with it, because it needs the high frequencies to work. My
> ADSL kit (suitable for installation by the end user) consists of an
> ADSL modem and four phone filters. That allows up to four phones to be
> used.
>
> The frequency range on the phone cable, is divided into bands. The red band
> (4KHz and below) is used for telephone audio. 26KHz to 138KHz handles
> uploading. 138KHz to 1104KHz handles downloading, which is why downloading
> is faster (asymmetric band plan). For the lucky customers with one of
> the higher speed ADSL standards installed at their phone company, the
> frequencies stretch out to 2208KHz. (Mine only goes to 1104KHz.) The
> phone filter is needed, so only 4KHz and below is passed to the telephone.
> So the phone filter keeps the red band, and throws away the blue and green.
>
> http://www.aaisp.net.uk/i/adslfreq.png
>
> ADSL is distance limited, so there is a trade off between distance and
> download speed. They can offer a lower speed package, and use double
> the amount of wire from the telephone company. But in a lot of cases,
> it is lousy house wiring (like in my house), that ruins ADSL. Corrosion
> in connectors and the like, can upset it.
>
> Paul
>

DontKnow wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> Many thanks for your inputs!!
>
> I do currently have a filter fitted, (it came with the modem as a package),
>
> What happens is that I have the telephone cable go into the filter and the
> modem line goes to the modem and off to the computer and alaso there is an
> output for a telephone connection. When I insert the telephobne jack into
> the filter output and listen to the dial tone , yiou can here the
> interference (only when the modem is turned on). I f the modem is turned off
> the interference goes away. I don't think that it is the filter, my
> thoughts are that it is the modem is creating the interference??
>
> Do you think this is correct??
> ( I am thinking of purchasing a new modem)
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> "Paul" wrote:
>
>> Leythos wrote:
>>> In article <o9Odnbp_SZZ5JlnXnZ2dnUVZ8tednZ2d.TakeThisOut@giganews.com>,
>>> gezgin.TakeThisOut@spamcop.net.which.is.not.invalid says...
>>>> "Bob" <grafixguy.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote
>>>>
>>>>>> You are listening to the broadband carrier. Every normal telephone on
>>>>>> the system requires an filter to be inserted in the line to block it.
>>>>>> In practice if all your telephones meet at one point before connection
>>>>>> to the incoming line then a single filter at that location will do the
>>>>>> job. If your broadband modem has been installed correctly then it
>>>>>> should be connected to the ADSL side of such a filter. It should
>>>>>> therefore have an unused telephone socket on it.
>>>>> Do you have the filter on the -modem- line or on the -phone- line? AFAIK,
>>>>> you can't use a filter on the line coming into the modem.
>>>> Isn't this thing called a "splitter" not a "filter"?
>>>>
>>>> On my system:
>>>>
>>>> wall outlet >> wire >> splitter >> wire1 >> telephone
>>>> >> wire2 >> modem
>>>>
>>>> That is, a single wire from the outlet in the wall goes into the splitter
>>>> from which two wires emerge, one of which goes to the telephone and the
>>>> other of which goes to the modem.
>>> DSL uses a FILTER that splits or a inline filter.
>>>
>>> The filter has to be connected to ALL devices EXCEPT the DSL modem.
>>>
>> The terminology and devices tend to vary a bit from country to country.
>> I was hoping to find some nice pictures, of how to set up ADSL, but
>> couldn't find a single web site that covered the variations.
>>
>> This paper, starting at PDF page 61 and figure 3, shows some examples.
>>
>> http://www.uh.edu/~fzellner/adsl.pdf
>>
>> For example, where I live, it is Fig.6 on PDF page 68. Each phone has
>> a low pass filter installed in-line with the phone wire, to cut off the
>> higher frequencies of ADSL. The path to the ADSL box, has no filter
>> in line with it, because it needs the high frequencies to work. My
>> ADSL kit (suitable for installation by the end user) consists of an
>> ADSL modem and four phone filters. That allows up to four phones to be
>> used.
>>
>> The frequency range on the phone cable, is divided into bands. The red band
>> (4KHz and below) is used for telephone audio. 26KHz to 138KHz handles
>> uploading. 138KHz to 1104KHz handles downloading, which is why downloading
>> is faster (asymmetric band plan). For the lucky customers with one of
>> the higher speed ADSL standards installed at their phone company, the
>> frequencies stretch out to 2208KHz. (Mine only goes to 1104KHz.) The
>> phone filter is needed, so only 4KHz and below is passed to the telephone.
>> So the phone filter keeps the red band, and throws away the blue and green.
>>
>> http://www.aaisp.net.uk/i/adslfreq.png
>>
>> ADSL is distance limited, so there is a trade off between distance and
>> download speed. They can offer a lower speed package, and use double
>> the amount of wire from the telephone company. But in a lot of cases,
>> it is lousy house wiring (like in my house), that ruins ADSL. Corrosion
>> in connectors and the like, can upset it.
>>
>> Paul
>>

The splitter concept used in Europe, seems to be the same as our in-line
filter, except the box has two output connectors.

http://adslm.dohrenburg.net/troubleshoot/splitter.php

They show a schematic of a splitter here.

http://adslm.dohrenburg.net/images/splitter-diagram.jpg

Due to the low frequencies involved on the filter circuit, the components
must be physically large. In this case, the four inductors are relatively
large coils of wire, to get a high inductance in a small space.

http://adslm.dohrenburg.net/images/inside-splitter.jpg

OK, so what could be happening ?

I'll redraw their diagram, like this. The ADSL Modem jack, has
no filtering in its path. The phone has the 4KHz LPF low pass
filter.

+----------------------------------+
|<--------- Splitter Box --------->|
| |
From_Phone_Company -------+------ Filter --- Phone_Jack ----- Phone
| |
| +----------------- ADSL_Jack ------ ADSL Modem
| |
+----------------------------------+

If the filter circuit malfunctioned, then normal ADSL noise could
leak through (aliased down into voice band).

On the other hand, if the ADSL Modem malfunctioned, and *injected*
voice frequency noise (below 4KHz), the filter is fully justified
to be passing that to the phone.

So, you're right, it could be the ADSL modem that needs replacing.

I'd try these steps.

1) Make sure that the wire leading to the phone, from the splitter,
is not twisted, coiled or bundled with the ADSL wire leading
from the splitter. The wires should have some separation between
them. Otherwise, there could be crosstalk coupled into the
phone line, which is now, after the filter.
_______
/ Phone
---------+ Keep wires separated!
\_______
Modem

2) Replace the splitter and try another one, on the chance that the
super-simple and reliable filter circuit, has failed. As the
dohrenburg.net web page indicates, no electrolytic capacitors
are used in the circuit, so failure due to shoddy materials
isn't likely. You could have a lightning strike that damaged
something, but you're supposed to have lightning protection
near the demarc (where the phone company wire ends, and your
wiring begins).

3) Replace ADSL modem, as you've now replaced everything else.

If the noise didn't disappear when the modem was shut off, I'd
have to add other suggestions, but fortunately, that observation
allows me to stop with just three steps.

HTH,
Paul

Thanks Paul,

I'll try another modem and I'll let you know!!

Cheers,

"Paul" wrote:

> DontKnow wrote:
> > Hi All,
> >
> > Many thanks for your inputs!!
> >
> > I do currently have a filter fitted, (it came with the modem as a package),
> >
> > What happens is that I have the telephone cable go into the filter and the
> > modem line goes to the modem and off to the computer and alaso there is an
> > output for a telephone connection. When I insert the telephobne jack into
> > the filter output and listen to the dial tone , yiou can here the
> > interference (only when the modem is turned on). I f the modem is turned off
> > the interference goes away. I don't think that it is the filter, my
> > thoughts are that it is the modem is creating the interference??
> >
> > Do you think this is correct??
> > ( I am thinking of purchasing a new modem)
> >
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > "Paul" wrote:
> >
> >> Leythos wrote:
> >>> In article <o9Odnbp_SZZ5JlnXnZ2dnUVZ8tednZ2d.DeleteThis@giganews.com>,
> >>> gezgin.DeleteThis@spamcop.net.which.is.not.invalid says...
> >>>> "Bob" <grafixguy.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote
> >>>>
> >>>>>> You are listening to the broadband carrier. Every normal telephone on
> >>>>>> the system requires an filter to be inserted in the line to block it.
> >>>>>> In practice if all your telephones meet at one point before connection
> >>>>>> to the incoming line then a single filter at that location will do the
> >>>>>> job. If your broadband modem has been installed correctly then it
> >>>>>> should be connected to the ADSL side of such a filter. It should
> >>>>>> therefore have an unused telephone socket on it.
> >>>>> Do you have the filter on the -modem- line or on the -phone- line? AFAIK,
> >>>>> you can't use a filter on the line coming into the modem.
> >>>> Isn't this thing called a "splitter" not a "filter"?
> >>>>
> >>>> On my system:
> >>>>
> >>>> wall outlet >> wire >> splitter >> wire1 >> telephone
> >>>> >> wire2 >> modem
> >>>>
> >>>> That is, a single wire from the outlet in the wall goes into the splitter
> >>>> from which two wires emerge, one of which goes to the telephone and the
> >>>> other of which goes to the modem.
> >>> DSL uses a FILTER that splits or a inline filter.
> >>>
> >>> The filter has to be connected to ALL devices EXCEPT the DSL modem.
> >>>
> >> The terminology and devices tend to vary a bit from country to country.
> >> I was hoping to find some nice pictures, of how to set up ADSL, but
> >> couldn't find a single web site that covered the variations.
> >>
> >> This paper, starting at PDF page 61 and figure 3, shows some examples.
> >>
> >> http://www.uh.edu/~fzellner/adsl.pdf
> >>
> >> For example, where I live, it is Fig.6 on PDF page 68. Each phone has
> >> a low pass filter installed in-line with the phone wire, to cut off the
> >> higher frequencies of ADSL. The path to the ADSL box, has no filter
> >> in line with it, because it needs the high frequencies to work. My
> >> ADSL kit (suitable for installation by the end user) consists of an
> >> ADSL modem and four phone filters. That allows up to four phones to be
> >> used.
> >>
> >> The frequency range on the phone cable, is divided into bands. The red band
> >> (4KHz and below) is used for telephone audio. 26KHz to 138KHz handles
> >> uploading. 138KHz to 1104KHz handles downloading, which is why downloading
> >> is faster (asymmetric band plan). For the lucky customers with one of
> >> the higher speed ADSL standards installed at their phone company, the
> >> frequencies stretch out to 2208KHz. (Mine only goes to 1104KHz.) The
> >> phone filter is needed, so only 4KHz and below is passed to the telephone.
> >> So the phone filter keeps the red band, and throws away the blue and green.
> >>
> >> http://www.aaisp.net.uk/i/adslfreq.png
> >>
> >> ADSL is distance limited, so there is a trade off between distance and
> >> download speed. They can offer a lower speed package, and use double
> >> the amount of wire from the telephone company. But in a lot of cases,
> >> it is lousy house wiring (like in my house), that ruins ADSL. Corrosion
> >> in connectors and the like, can upset it.
> >>
> >> Paul
> >>
>
> The splitter concept used in Europe, seems to be the same as our in-line
> filter, except the box has two output connectors.
>
> http://adslm.dohrenburg.net/troubleshoot/splitter.php
>
> They show a schematic of a splitter here.
>
> http://adslm.dohrenburg.net/images/splitter-diagram.jpg
>
> Due to the low frequencies involved on the filter circuit, the components
> must be physically large. In this case, the four inductors are relatively
> large coils of wire, to get a high inductance in a small space.
>
> http://adslm.dohrenburg.net/images/inside-splitter.jpg
>
> OK, so what could be happening ?
>
> I'll redraw their diagram, like this. The ADSL Modem jack, has
> no filtering in its path. The phone has the 4KHz LPF low pass
> filter.
>
> +----------------------------------+
> |<--------- Splitter Box --------->|
> | |
> From_Phone_Company -------+------ Filter --- Phone_Jack ----- Phone
> | |
> | +----------------- ADSL_Jack ------ ADSL Modem
> | |
> +----------------------------------+
>
> If the filter circuit malfunctioned, then normal ADSL noise could
> leak through (aliased down into voice band).
>
> On the other hand, if the ADSL Modem malfunctioned, and *injected*
> voice frequency noise (below 4KHz), the filter is fully justified
> to be passing that to the phone.
>
> So, you're right, it could be the ADSL modem that needs replacing.
>
> I'd try these steps.
>
> 1) Make sure that the wire leading to the phone, from the splitter,
> is not twisted, coiled or bundled with the ADSL wire leading
> from the splitter. The wires should have some separation between
> them. Otherwise, there could be crosstalk coupled into the
> phone line, which is now, after the filter.
> _______
> / Phone
> ---------+ Keep wires separated!
> \_______
> Modem
>
> 2) Replace the splitter and try another one, on the chance that the
> super-simple and reliable filter circuit, has failed. As the
> dohrenburg.net web page indicates, no electrolytic capacitors
> are used in the circuit, so failure due to shoddy materials
> isn't likely. You could have a lightning strike that damaged
> something, but you're supposed to have lightning protection
> near the demarc (where the phone company wire ends, and your
> wiring begins).
>
> 3) Replace ADSL modem, as you've now replaced everything else.
>
> If the noise didn't disappear when the modem was shut off, I'd
> have to add other suggestions, but fortunately, that observation
> allows me to stop with just three steps.
>
> HTH,
> Paul
>

On Oct 1, 8:23 pm, Paul <nos... RemoveThis @needed.com> wrote:
> DontKnow wrote:
> > Hi All,
>
> > Many thanks for your inputs!!
>
> > I do currently have a filter fitted, (it came with the modem as a package),
>
> > What happens is that I have the telephone cable go into the filter and the
> > modem line goes to the modem and off to the computer and alaso there is an
> > output for a telephone connection.  When I insert the telephobne jack into
> > the filter output and listen to the dial tone , yiou can here the
> > interference (only when the modem is turned on). I f the modem is turned off
> > the interference goes away.   I don't think that it is the filter, my
> > thoughts are that it is the modem is creating the interference??
>
> > Do you think this is correct??
> > ( I am thinking of purchasing a new modem)
>
> > Cheers,
>
> > "Paul" wrote:
>
> >> Leythos wrote:
> >>> In article <o9Odnbp_SZZ5JlnXnZ2dnUVZ8tedn... RemoveThis @giganews.com>,
> >>> gez... RemoveThis @spamcop.net.which.is.not.invalid says...
> >>>> "Bob" <grafix... RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote
>
> >>>>>> You are listening to the broadband carrier.  Every normal telephone on
> >>>>>> the system requires an filter to be inserted in the line to block it.
> >>>>>> In practice if all your telephones meet at one point before connection
> >>>>>> to the incoming line then a single filter at that location will do the
> >>>>>> job.   If your broadband modem has been installed correctly then it
> >>>>>> should be connected to the ADSL side of such a filter.  It should
> >>>>>> therefore have an unused telephone socket on it.
> >>>>> Do you have the filter on the -modem- line or on the -phone- line? AFAIK,
> >>>>> you can't use a filter on the line coming into the modem.
> >>>> Isn't this thing called a "splitter" not a "filter"?
>
> >>>> On my system:
>
> >>>> wall outlet >> wire >> splitter >> wire1 >> telephone
> >>>>                                              >> wire2 >> modem
>
> >>>> That is, a single wire from the outlet in the wall goes into the splitter
> >>>> from which two wires emerge, one of which goes to the telephone and the
> >>>> other of which goes to the modem.
> >>> DSL uses a FILTER that splits or a inline filter.
>
> >>> The filter has to be connected to ALL devices EXCEPT the DSL modem.
>
> >> The terminology and devices tend to vary a bit from country to country..
> >> I was hoping to find some nice pictures, of how to set up ADSL, but
> >> couldn't find a single web site that covered the variations.
>
> >> This paper, starting at PDF page 61 and figure 3, shows some examples.
>
> >>http://www.uh.edu/~fzellner/adsl.pdf
>
> >> For example, where I live, it is Fig.6 on PDF page 68. Each phone has
> >> a low pass filter installed in-line with the phone wire, to cut off the
> >> higher frequencies of ADSL. The path to the ADSL box, has no filter
> >> in line with it, because it needs the high frequencies to work. My
> >> ADSL kit (suitable for installation by the end user) consists of an
> >> ADSL modem and four phone filters. That allows up to four phones to be
> >> used.
>
> >> The frequency range on the phone cable, is divided into bands. The red band
> >> (4KHz and below) is used for telephone audio. 26KHz to 138KHz handles
> >> uploading. 138KHz to 1104KHz handles downloading, which is why downloading
> >> is faster (asymmetric band plan). For the lucky customers with one of
> >> the higher speed ADSL standards installed at their phone company, the
> >> frequencies stretch out to 2208KHz. (Mine only goes to 1104KHz.) The
> >> phone filter is needed, so only 4KHz and below is passed to the telephone.
> >> So the phone filter keeps the red band, and throws away the blue and green.
>
> >>http://www.aaisp.net.uk/i/adslfreq.png
>
> >> ADSL is distance limited, so there is a trade off between distance and
> >> download speed. They can offer a lower speed package, and use double
> >> the amount of wire from the telephone company. But in a lot of cases,
> >> it is lousy house wiring (like in my house), that ruins ADSL. Corrosion
> >> in connectors and the like, can upset it.
>
> >>     Paul
>
> The splitter concept used in Europe, seems to be the same as our in-line
> filter, except the box has two output connectors.
>
> http://adslm.dohrenburg.net/troubleshoot/splitter.php
>
> They show a schematic of a splitter here.
>
> http://adslm.dohrenburg.net/images/splitter-diagram.jpg
>
> Due to the low frequencies involved on the filter circuit, the components
> must be physically large. In this case, the four inductors are relatively
> large coils of wire, to get a high inductance in a small space.
>
> http://adslm.dohrenburg.net/images/inside-splitter.jpg
>
> OK, so what could be happening ?
>
> I'll redraw their diagram, like this. The ADSL Modem jack, has
> no filtering in its path. The phone has the 4KHz LPF low pass
> filter.
>
>                             +----------------------------------+
>                             |<--------- Splitter Box --------->|
>                             |                                  |
>      From_Phone_Company -------+------ Filter --- Phone_Jack ----- Phone
>                             |  |
>                             |  +----------------- ADSL_Jack ------ ADSL Modem
>                             |                                  |
>                             +----------------------------------+
>
> If the filter circuit malfunctioned, then normal ADSL noise could
> leak through (aliased down into voice band).
>
> On the other hand, if the ADSL Modem malfunctioned, and *injected*
> voice frequency noise (below 4KHz), the filter is fully justified
> to be passing that to the phone.
>
> So, you're right, it could be the ADSL modem that needs replacing.
>
> I'd try these steps.
>
> 1) Make sure that the wire leading to the phone, from the splitter,
>     is not twisted, coiled or bundled with the ADSL wire leading
>     from the splitter. The wires should have some separation between
>     them. Otherwise, there could be crosstalk coupled into the
>     phone line, which is now, after the filter.
>                     _______
>                    /        Phone
>          ---------+                  Keep wires separated!
>                    \_______
>                             Modem
>
> 2) Replace the splitter and try another one, on the chance that the
>     super-simple and reliable filter circuit, has failed. As the
>     dohrenburg.net web page indicates, no electrolytic capacitors
>     are used in the circuit, so failure due to shoddy materials
>     isn't likely. You could have a lightning strike that damaged
>     something, but you're supposed to have lightning protection
>     near the demarc (where the phone company wire ends, and your
>     wiring begins).
>
> 3) Replace ADSL modem, as you've now replaced everything else.
>
> If the noise didn't disappear when the modem was shut off, I'd
> have to add other suggestions, but fortunately, that observation
> allows me to stop with just three steps.
>
> HTH,
>       Paul

The filters Bellsouth sent me all acted as splitters, meaning there
were connections for adsl/phone on each of them. They recommended
plugging everything in through filters, and I never had any problem
with them.

On Oct 2, 8:52 am, Hodges <mrezous....TakeThisOut@garrifulio.mailexpire.com>
wrote:
> On Oct 1, 8:23 pm, Paul <nos....TakeThisOut@needed.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > DontKnow wrote:
> > > Hi All,
>
> > > Many thanks for your inputs!!
>
> > > I do currently have a filter fitted, (it came with the modem as a package),
>
> > > What happens is that I have the telephone cable go into the filter and the
> > > modem line goes to the modem and off to the computer and alaso there is an
> > > output for a telephone connection.  When I insert the telephobne jack into
> > > the filter output and listen to the dial tone , yiou can here the
> > > interference (only when the modem is turned on). I f the modem is turned off
> > > the interference goes away.   I don't think that it is the filter, my
> > > thoughts are that it is the modem is creating the interference??
>
> > > Do you think this is correct??
> > > ( I am thinking of purchasing a new modem)
>
> > > Cheers,
>
> > > "Paul" wrote:
>
> > >> Leythos wrote:
> > >>> In article <o9Odnbp_SZZ5JlnXnZ2dnUVZ8tedn....TakeThisOut@giganews.com>,
> > >>> gez....TakeThisOut@spamcop.net.which.is.not.invalid says...
> > >>>> "Bob" <grafix....TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote
>
> > >>>>>> You are listening to the broadband carrier.  Every normal telephone on
> > >>>>>> the system requires an filter to be inserted in the line to block it.
> > >>>>>> In practice if all your telephones meet at one point before connection
> > >>>>>> to the incoming line then a single filter at that location will do the
> > >>>>>> job.   If your broadband modem has been installed correctly then it
> > >>>>>> should be connected to the ADSL side of such a filter.  It should
> > >>>>>> therefore have an unused telephone socket on it.
> > >>>>> Do you have the filter on the -modem- line or on the -phone- line? AFAIK,
> > >>>>> you can't use a filter on the line coming into the modem.
> > >>>> Isn't this thing called a "splitter" not a "filter"?
>
> > >>>> On my system:
>
> > >>>> wall outlet >> wire >> splitter >> wire1 >> telephone
> > >>>>                                              >> wire2 >> modem
>
> > >>>> That is, a single wire from the outlet in the wall goes into the splitter
> > >>>> from which two wires emerge, one of which goes to the telephone and the
> > >>>> other of which goes to the modem.
> > >>> DSL uses a FILTER that splits or a inline filter.
>
> > >>> The filter has to be connected to ALL devices EXCEPT the DSL modem.
>
> > >> The terminology and devices tend to vary a bit from country to country.
> > >> I was hoping to find some nice pictures, of how to set up ADSL, but
> > >> couldn't find a single web site that covered the variations.
>
> > >> This paper, starting at PDF page 61 and figure 3, shows some examples.
>
> > >>http://www.uh.edu/~fzellner/adsl.pdf
>
> > >> For example, where I live, it is Fig.6 on PDF page 68. Each phone has
> > >> a low pass filter installed in-line with the phone wire, to cut off the
> > >> higher frequencies of ADSL. The path to the ADSL box, has no filter
> > >> in line with it, because it needs the high frequencies to work. My
> > >> ADSL kit (suitable for installation by the end user) consists of an
> > >> ADSL modem and four phone filters. That allows up to four phones to be
> > >> used.
>
> > >> The frequency range on the phone cable, is divided into bands. The red band
> > >> (4KHz and below) is used for telephone audio. 26KHz to 138KHz handles
> > >> uploading. 138KHz to 1104KHz handles downloading, which is why downloading
> > >> is faster (asymmetric band plan). For the lucky customers with one of
> > >> the higher speed ADSL standards installed at their phone company, the
> > >> frequencies stretch out to 2208KHz. (Mine only goes to 1104KHz.) The
> > >> phone filter is needed, so only 4KHz and below is passed to the telephone.
> > >> So the phone filter keeps the red band, and throws away the blue and green.
>
> > >>http://www.aaisp.net.uk/i/adslfreq.png
>
> > >> ADSL is distance limited, so there is a trade off between distance and
> > >> download speed. They can offer a lower speed package, and use double
> > >> the amount of wire from the telephone company. But in a lot of cases,
> > >> it is lousy house wiring (like in my house), that ruins ADSL. Corrosion
> > >> in connectors and the like, can upset it.
>
> > >>     Paul
>
> > The splitter concept used in Europe, seems to be the same as our in-line
> > filter, except the box has two output connectors.
>
> >http://adslm.dohrenburg.net/troubleshoot/splitter.php
>
> > They show a schematic of a splitter here.
>
> >http://adslm.dohrenburg.net/images/splitter-diagram.jpg
>
> > Due to the low frequencies involved on the filter circuit, the components
> > must be physically large. In this case, the four inductors are relatively
> > large coils of wire, to get a high inductance in a small space.
>
> >http://adslm.dohrenburg.net/images/inside-splitter.jpg
>
> > OK, so what could be happening ?
>
> > I'll redraw their diagram, like this. The ADSL Modem jack, has
> > no filtering in its path. The phone has the 4KHz LPF low pass
> > filter.
>
> >                             +----------------------------------+
> >                             |<--------- Splitter Box --------->|
> >                             |                                  |
> >      From_Phone_Company -------+------ Filter --- Phone_Jack ----- Phone
> >                             |  |
> >                             |  +----------------- ADSL_Jack ------ ADSL Modem
> >                             |                                  |
> >                             +----------------------------------+
>
> > If the filter circuit malfunctioned, then normal ADSL noise could
> > leak through (aliased down into voice band).
>
> > On the other hand, if the ADSL Modem malfunctioned, and *injected*
> > voice frequency noise (below 4KHz), the filter is fully justified
> > to be passing that to the phone.
>
> > So, you're right, it could be the ADSL modem that needs replacing.
>
> > I'd try these steps.
>
> > 1) Make sure that the wire leading to the phone, from the splitter,
> >     is not twisted, coiled or bundled with the ADSL wire leading
> >     from the splitter. The wires should have some separation between
> >     them. Otherwise, there could be crosstalk coupled into the
> >     phone line, which is now, after the filter.
> >                     _______
> >                    /        Phone
> >          ---------+                  Keep wires separated!
> >                    \_______
> >                             Modem
>
> > 2) Replace the splitter and try another one, on the chance that the
> >     super-simple and reliable filter circuit, has failed. As the
> >     dohrenburg.net web page indicates, no electrolytic capacitors
> >     are used in the circuit, so failure due to shoddy materials
> >     isn't likely. You could have a lightning strike that damaged
> >     something, but you're supposed to have lightning protection
> >     near the demarc (where the phone company wire ends, and your
> >     wiring begins).
>
> > 3) Replace ADSL modem, as you've now replaced everything else.
>
> > If the noise didn't disappear when the modem was shut off, I'd
> > have to add other suggestions, but fortunately, that observation
> > allows me to stop with just three steps.
>
> > HTH,
> >       Paul
>
> The filters Bellsouth sent me all acted as splitters, meaning there
> were connections for adsl/phone on each of them.  They recommended
> plugging everything in through filters, and I never had any problem
> with them.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I'd try chnaging the filter first, as that should be easier and
cheaper than changing the modem - filters are about 3 GBP in the UK
presumably not so different pricewise elsewhere..

"Leythos" <spam999free RemoveThis @rrohio.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.252e9c6812c9e1fa989f0c@us.news.astraweb.com...
> In article <o9Odnbp_SZZ5JlnXnZ2dnUVZ8tednZ2d RemoveThis @giganews.com>,
> gezgin RemoveThis @spamcop.net.which.is.not.invalid says...
>>
>> "Bob" <grafixguy RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote
>>
>> >> You are listening to the broadband carrier. Every normal telephone on
>> >> the system requires an filter to be inserted in the line to block it.
>> >> In practice if all your telephones meet at one point before connection
>> >> to the incoming line then a single filter at that location will do the
>> >> job. If your broadband modem has been installed correctly then it
>> >> should be connected to the ADSL side of such a filter. It should
>> >> therefore have an unused telephone socket on it.
>>
>> > Do you have the filter on the -modem- line or on the -phone- line?
>> > AFAIK,
>> > you can't use a filter on the line coming into the modem.
>>
>> Isn't this thing called a "splitter" not a "filter"?
>>
>> On my system:
>>
>> wall outlet >> wire >> splitter >> wire1 >> telephone
>> >> wire2 >> modem
>>
>> That is, a single wire from the outlet in the wall goes into the splitter
>> from which two wires emerge, one of which goes to the telephone and the
>> other of which goes to the modem.
>
> DSL uses a FILTER that splits or a inline filter.
>
> The filter has to be connected to ALL devices EXCEPT the DSL modem.
>

Whilst true, the modem usually has an RJ-11 plug which won't fit a BT phone
socket. The modem is usually connected to the DSL socket on a filter but,
as you note, the filter doesn't actually do anything to the DSL signal. The
modem could be conected via a suitable plug adaptor.