Is WM5 worth trying on a Dell Axim x50v?

I'll second Clinton's recommendation, but say that I haven't spent a lot of
time in WM5 yet. I also upgraded once, then stepped back for awhile before
hitting it again. My reason for upgrading wasn't necessarily the Persistant
Storage, but a semi-related item. It's the way that WM5 handles memory as a
whole. In 2003, there's 3 types of memory; RAM, ROM (aka Built In Storage),
and removable (SD, CF, etc). If you do default software installations,
you'll clutter up your precious RAM, of which you only have 64MB, and about
25 to 30 MB usable after the OS and everything else is loaded. Then you
have the ever popular memory slider, where you try to juggle the memory
allocations. You can chose to install applications and data to the BIS
(Built In Storage) or the SD cards, but it's the exception to every
installation.

With WM5, there are the same 3 memory types, but the handling of them is
shuffled around. RAM is used strictly for executing applications, much like
the RAM on your computer. ROM is used similar to a computer's HD; for
storing data and applications. Now, you still only have 128MB of storage,
so I usually install the apps there, and put the data on my SD card. When I
get around to picking up a CF card, I'll probably use that for media (music,
videos) simply because it's easier to get larger CF memory for cheap that SD
memory (I've got a 1GB card). The default installation for new apps will be
to ROM, and you can chose to install it to your removable storage if you
wish.

But in WM5, there is no option to install apps to RAM. There's also no
memory slider (since you can't install to RAM). So you have your precious
64MB available for applications, all the time. Now, one thing some people
notice is that WM5 uses more RAM for the OS itself. That's a tradeoff I'm
willing to accept.

One thing to note is that AFAIK, you MUST use ActiveSync 4.x for WM5
sychronization. And in 4.x, you lose the ability to sync over the network.
You can still sync via Bluetooth or IR, but IMHO, that's a kludge. I fought
with my BT sync the other night, till my battery died. Sometimes it would
work, sometimes not. The WiFi sync in AS 3.8 seemed to be much more robust.
But MS says its a "feature" to have the WiFi sync removed, so I doubt we'll
see it back anytime soon.

I also still have issues of slowdown, for whatever reason. There's talk
about the filesys.exe taking over the system every once in a while, which is
causing this on other people's machines. If it doesn't get any worse, I'll
probably stick it out, and hope for the next ROM upgrade from Dell to fix
things. You might also want to check out www.aximsite.com, if you haven't
already. Lot's of users in the same boat as you, and they're familiar with
your machine.
--
Clint
"Clinton Fitch [MVP-Mobile Devices]"
<management.DeleteThis@NOSPAMMINGME.clintonfitch.com> wrote in message
news:%23xV4D%23uFGHA.3200@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> Tony,
>
> I have a x50v that I have upgraded to WM5. The upgrade was a bit of a
> challenge and at one point I ended up going back to WM2003. I stuck with
> it though and improved my upgrade strategy and I've been happy since. You
> can find out that upgrade strategy here:
> http://groups.google.de/group/microsoft.public.pocketpc/browse_thread/...ead/200
>
> Overall I've been happy with the upgrade and have actually found very few
> applications that don't work well on WM5. The biggest problems seem to be
> around PIM applications. I use Pocket Informant for example and I had to
> get the free upgrade to make it happy.
>
> As to if it is a waste of time, that is tough to say. If you are happy
> with WM2003 there is no reason to upgrade frankly. If however you want
> things like Persistent Storage (which was my key driver) then it is worth
> it. I've got an editorial on that at
> http://www.clintonfitch.com/editorials/112005/wm5sold/default.asp.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
>
> --
> Clinton Fitch [MVP-Mobile Devices]
> Principle
> Clinton Fitch (Dot) Com!
> http://www.clintonfitch.com
>
>
>
> "Tony" <tony7_146879_5878.DeleteThis@no-spam.org.uk> wrote in message
> news:42l7s7F1joubpU1@individual.net...
>> Ihave heard varying reports on the success of using Windows Mobile 5 on
>> the
>> Axim x50v. I think generally they hve been more negative than positive.
>> Is
>> there any reason to upgrade to WM5, or is it just not worth the hassle?
>> Ihave also heard that a lot of software won't run in WM5.
>>
>> My system runs happily at present and works a treat, and also all the
>> software I use runs well in 2003SE.
>>
>> Would I be wasting my time thinking about trying to upgrade to WM5 at the
>> moment?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Tony
>>
>>
>
>

Clint,

You are correct in that you have to use AS4.x with WM5.

The WiFi sync was removed for security reasons. I hope it comes back too
but I'm not real confident it will.

Regards,

--
Clinton Fitch [MVP-Mobile Devices]
Principle
Clinton Fitch (Dot) Com!
http://www.clintonfitch.com


"Clint" <nobody.TakeThisOut@nowhere.non> wrote in message
news:epX7sJvFGHA.1396@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> I'll second Clinton's recommendation, but say that I haven't spent a lot
> of time in WM5 yet. I also upgraded once, then stepped back for awhile
> before hitting it again. My reason for upgrading wasn't necessarily the
> Persistant Storage, but a semi-related item. It's the way that WM5
> handles memory as a whole. In 2003, there's 3 types of memory; RAM, ROM
> (aka Built In Storage), and removable (SD, CF, etc). If you do default
> software installations, you'll clutter up your precious RAM, of which you
> only have 64MB, and about 25 to 30 MB usable after the OS and everything
> else is loaded. Then you have the ever popular memory slider, where you
> try to juggle the memory allocations. You can chose to install
> applications and data to the BIS (Built In Storage) or the SD cards, but
> it's the exception to every installation.
>
> With WM5, there are the same 3 memory types, but the handling of them is
> shuffled around. RAM is used strictly for executing applications, much
> like the RAM on your computer. ROM is used similar to a computer's HD;
> for storing data and applications. Now, you still only have 128MB of
> storage, so I usually install the apps there, and put the data on my SD
> card. When I get around to picking up a CF card, I'll probably use that
> for media (music, videos) simply because it's easier to get larger CF
> memory for cheap that SD memory (I've got a 1GB card). The default
> installation for new apps will be to ROM, and you can chose to install it
> to your removable storage if you wish.
>
> But in WM5, there is no option to install apps to RAM. There's also no
> memory slider (since you can't install to RAM). So you have your precious
> 64MB available for applications, all the time. Now, one thing some people
> notice is that WM5 uses more RAM for the OS itself. That's a tradeoff I'm
> willing to accept.
>
> One thing to note is that AFAIK, you MUST use ActiveSync 4.x for WM5
> sychronization. And in 4.x, you lose the ability to sync over the
> network. You can still sync via Bluetooth or IR, but IMHO, that's a
> kludge. I fought with my BT sync the other night, till my battery died.
> Sometimes it would work, sometimes not. The WiFi sync in AS 3.8 seemed to
> be much more robust. But MS says its a "feature" to have the WiFi sync
> removed, so I doubt we'll see it back anytime soon.
>
> I also still have issues of slowdown, for whatever reason. There's talk
> about the filesys.exe taking over the system every once in a while, which
> is causing this on other people's machines. If it doesn't get any worse,
> I'll probably stick it out, and hope for the next ROM upgrade from Dell to
> fix things. You might also want to check out www.aximsite.com, if you
> haven't already. Lot's of users in the same boat as you, and they're
> familiar with your machine.
> --
> Clint
> "Clinton Fitch [MVP-Mobile Devices]"
> <management.TakeThisOut@NOSPAMMINGME.clintonfitch.com> wrote in message
> news:%23xV4D%23uFGHA.3200@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>> Tony,
>>
>> I have a x50v that I have upgraded to WM5. The upgrade was a bit of a
>> challenge and at one point I ended up going back to WM2003. I stuck with
>> it though and improved my upgrade strategy and I've been happy since.
>> You can find out that upgrade strategy here:
>> http://groups.google.de/group/microsoft.public.pocketpc/browse_thread/...ead/200
>>
>> Overall I've been happy with the upgrade and have actually found very few
>> applications that don't work well on WM5. The biggest problems seem to
>> be around PIM applications. I use Pocket Informant for example and I had
>> to get the free upgrade to make it happy.
>>
>> As to if it is a waste of time, that is tough to say. If you are happy
>> with WM2003 there is no reason to upgrade frankly. If however you want
>> things like Persistent Storage (which was my key driver) then it is worth
>> it. I've got an editorial on that at
>> http://www.clintonfitch.com/editorials/112005/wm5sold/default.asp.
>>
>> Hope this helps,
>>
>>
>> --
>> Clinton Fitch [MVP-Mobile Devices]
>> Principle
>> Clinton Fitch (Dot) Com!
>> http://www.clintonfitch.com
>>
>>
>>
>> "Tony" <tony7_146879_5878.TakeThisOut@no-spam.org.uk> wrote in message
>> news:42l7s7F1joubpU1@individual.net...
>>> Ihave heard varying reports on the success of using Windows Mobile 5 on
>>> the
>>> Axim x50v. I think generally they hve been more negative than positive.
>>> Is
>>> there any reason to upgrade to WM5, or is it just not worth the hassle?
>>> Ihave also heard that a lot of software won't run in WM5.
>>>
>>> My system runs happily at present and works a treat, and also all the
>>> software I use runs well in 2003SE.
>>>
>>> Would I be wasting my time thinking about trying to upgrade to WM5 at
>>> the
>>> moment?
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Tony
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

I still don't buy the security thing. All MS had to do (IMHO) is build in
some smarts to all the network-nazi admins (please excuse the politically
incorrect phrase) to lock down AS with a policy, and leave it alone for the
rest of us. Taking features away from everyone (again, IMHO) is a big
no-no. I write software for a living, and we have to have a darn good
reason to remove a feature that a sizeable portion of our user base has for
the gain of others.

I mean really, what have they accomplished? Have they prevented users from
accessing the network with their PDA's? No. Have they kept users from
syncing remotely? No, you still have Bluetooth, IR, and WiFi with Exchange
Server. So what, precisely, are they protecting us against?

Have you seen an actual document that said what they intended to accomplish?
I've heard the song and dance, but never more of a reason that "enterprise
users wanted it". I'd really like to see the full story. C'mon, you're an
MVP. Can't you send out a message with your secret decoder ring, asking for
it back?

--
Clint
"Clinton Fitch [MVP-Mobile Devices]"
<management RemoveThis @NOSPAMMINGME.clintonfitch.com> wrote in message
news:O0Uyo8wFGHA.3984@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
> Clint,
>
> You are correct in that you have to use AS4.x with WM5.
>
> The WiFi sync was removed for security reasons. I hope it comes back too
> but I'm not real confident it will.
>
> Regards,
>
> --
> Clinton Fitch [MVP-Mobile Devices]
> Principle
> Clinton Fitch (Dot) Com!
> http://www.clintonfitch.com
>
>
> "Clint" <nobody RemoveThis @nowhere.non> wrote in message
> news:epX7sJvFGHA.1396@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
>> I'll second Clinton's recommendation, but say that I haven't spent a lot
>> of time in WM5 yet. I also upgraded once, then stepped back for awhile
>> before hitting it again. My reason for upgrading wasn't necessarily the
>> Persistant Storage, but a semi-related item. It's the way that WM5
>> handles memory as a whole. In 2003, there's 3 types of memory; RAM, ROM
>> (aka Built In Storage), and removable (SD, CF, etc). If you do default
>> software installations, you'll clutter up your precious RAM, of which you
>> only have 64MB, and about 25 to 30 MB usable after the OS and everything
>> else is loaded. Then you have the ever popular memory slider, where you
>> try to juggle the memory allocations. You can chose to install
>> applications and data to the BIS (Built In Storage) or the SD cards, but
>> it's the exception to every installation.
>>
>> With WM5, there are the same 3 memory types, but the handling of them is
>> shuffled around. RAM is used strictly for executing applications, much
>> like the RAM on your computer. ROM is used similar to a computer's HD;
>> for storing data and applications. Now, you still only have 128MB of
>> storage, so I usually install the apps there, and put the data on my SD
>> card. When I get around to picking up a CF card, I'll probably use that
>> for media (music, videos) simply because it's easier to get larger CF
>> memory for cheap that SD memory (I've got a 1GB card). The default
>> installation for new apps will be to ROM, and you can chose to install it
>> to your removable storage if you wish.
>>
>> But in WM5, there is no option to install apps to RAM. There's also no
>> memory slider (since you can't install to RAM). So you have your
>> precious 64MB available for applications, all the time. Now, one thing
>> some people notice is that WM5 uses more RAM for the OS itself. That's a
>> tradeoff I'm willing to accept.
>>
>> One thing to note is that AFAIK, you MUST use ActiveSync 4.x for WM5
>> sychronization. And in 4.x, you lose the ability to sync over the
>> network. You can still sync via Bluetooth or IR, but IMHO, that's a
>> kludge. I fought with my BT sync the other night, till my battery died.
>> Sometimes it would work, sometimes not. The WiFi sync in AS 3.8 seemed
>> to be much more robust. But MS says its a "feature" to have the WiFi sync
>> removed, so I doubt we'll see it back anytime soon.
>>
>> I also still have issues of slowdown, for whatever reason. There's talk
>> about the filesys.exe taking over the system every once in a while, which
>> is causing this on other people's machines. If it doesn't get any worse,
>> I'll probably stick it out, and hope for the next ROM upgrade from Dell
>> to fix things. You might also want to check out www.aximsite.com, if you
>> haven't already. Lot's of users in the same boat as you, and they're
>> familiar with your machine.
>> --
>> Clint
>> "Clinton Fitch [MVP-Mobile Devices]"
>> <management RemoveThis @NOSPAMMINGME.clintonfitch.com> wrote in message
>> news:%23xV4D%23uFGHA.3200@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>>> Tony,
>>>
>>> I have a x50v that I have upgraded to WM5. The upgrade was a bit of a
>>> challenge and at one point I ended up going back to WM2003. I stuck
>>> with it though and improved my upgrade strategy and I've been happy
>>> since. You can find out that upgrade strategy here:
>>> http://groups.google.de/group/microsoft.public.pocketpc/browse_thread/...ead/200
>>>
>>> Overall I've been happy with the upgrade and have actually found very
>>> few applications that don't work well on WM5. The biggest problems seem
>>> to be around PIM applications. I use Pocket Informant for example and I
>>> had to get the free upgrade to make it happy.
>>>
>>> As to if it is a waste of time, that is tough to say. If you are happy
>>> with WM2003 there is no reason to upgrade frankly. If however you want
>>> things like Persistent Storage (which was my key driver) then it is
>>> worth it. I've got an editorial on that at
>>> http://www.clintonfitch.com/editorials/112005/wm5sold/default.asp.
>>>
>>> Hope this helps,
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Clinton Fitch [MVP-Mobile Devices]
>>> Principle
>>> Clinton Fitch (Dot) Com!
>>> http://www.clintonfitch.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Tony" <tony7_146879_5878 RemoveThis @no-spam.org.uk> wrote in message
>>> news:42l7s7F1joubpU1@individual.net...
>>>> Ihave heard varying reports on the success of using Windows Mobile 5 on
>>>> the
>>>> Axim x50v. I think generally they hve been more negative than
>>>> positive. Is
>>>> there any reason to upgrade to WM5, or is it just not worth the hassle?
>>>> Ihave also heard that a lot of software won't run in WM5.
>>>>
>>>> My system runs happily at present and works a treat, and also all the
>>>> software I use runs well in 2003SE.
>>>>
>>>> Would I be wasting my time thinking about trying to upgrade to WM5 at
>>>> the
>>>> moment?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>>
>>>> Tony
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

Tony wrote:
> Is there any reason to upgrade to WM5, or is it just not
> worth the hassle? Ihave also heard that a lot of software won't run
> in WM5.

Pros
1. Persistent store feature, so your data will survive battery failure
2. Warm fuzzy feeling from having the latest OS

Cons
1. Several bugs not fully resolved
2. Some applications run very slowly due to the use of flash memory
instead of RAM
3. Some applications don't run at all
4. You must use ActiveSync 4, which means no more syncing over wifi
5. Dell has reportedly been much slower releasing ROM updates for
upgraded devices versus native WM5 devices, so you may have to live
with those unresolved issues for some time

There's the pros and cons, you have to decide how they stack up
depending on your needs .

> I mean really, what have they accomplished? Have they prevented users
> from
> accessing the network with their PDA's? No.
True

>Have they kept users from syncing remotely? No, you still have Bluetooth,
>IR, and WiFi with Exchange Server.
Actually yes they have. BT and IR are relatively short range technologies
that prodiminantly depend on a line of sight between the PPC and PC. Not
entirely so on the BT side but that isn't the issue. Wifi with exchange is a
significantly different and more secure process than syncing with the
desktop version of Outlook via AS. There is inherent security built into
that connection not available in the AS system.

>So what, precisely, are they protecting us against?
The entiely open transmission of all the contacts, calendar, tasks, files,
etc that are passed during an AS session over the internet when you are
sitting at a free wifi hotspot at the local coffee shop.

The vulnerability is documented and easy to find on the web.

Are there ways to fix it? Sure, but they do take time and effort and
resources. You are a programmer. Do you spend time and effort on things that
your management believes are not critical, at the expense of things that
are?

Sven
MVP - Mobile Devices

I've done my google searches for this documentation, and all I've been able
to come up with is people complaining about the feature removal. If you
know the magic keywords to find the documentation, I'd appreciate it. A
direct link would be appreciated even more.

What I don't understand is this:

1) MS has a perfectly good AD policy system in place, that allows admins to
lock down all kinds of features. Why didn't they use that. Sure, it MIGHT
have been extra effort, but it would have made a sizeable portion of their
userbase happy (or at least not made them unhappy). Having not seen their
code, I can't comment one way or another on how much extra effort it would
have been. Removing the existing functionality was extra effort as well.
How much effort would it have been to do it in a way that gave some
flexibility? 10%? 25%? 100%? AFAIK, neither you or I know the answer to
that. I know I don't.
2) There are any number of ways to make the transmission of data secure.
If admins are so concerned about the open transmission, put things behind a
firewall, and require a VPN connection to sync. MS could have wrapped the
data with an SSL connection. Encrypt the data before syncing, and decrypt
it on the other end. As above, I'm not aware of how much extra effort would
have been required to solve the problem. But in both options, they wouldn't
have been inventing something new. The solutions were all there.
3) Correct me if I'm wrong (I've only had a wireless AS device for a
limited time), but the only way you could do the sync was if you had access
to your desktop/laptop system. The only way you could do that in your
coffee house scenario (or from a hotel room, or anywhere else outside a
secure office environment) is if you got access to the corporate network.
Typically, the admins would lock down the ability to see individual
workstations from outside the network. So you'd usually have a VPN
connection to transmit the AS data. Wouldn't that be secure enough?

I don't spend a lot of company time doing things that my management doesn't
think are important, but there's a couple of safeguards. First, I speak up
when I think we're going down the wrong path. Second, when we do something
(lock down the system, remove a feature, etc), we've learned that unless
there's a very compelling reason why ALL our customers should have that
feature, we put in setup options to turn the feature on and off. Then we
document the hell out of it, and make sure that our customers can understand
why we're doing it. If we can't afford to do it right, we can't afford to
do it wrong, either.

--
Clint
"Sven" <sejohannsen RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:u%23pdjCzFGHA.3892@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
>
>> I mean really, what have they accomplished? Have they prevented users
>> from
>> accessing the network with their PDA's? No.
> True
>
>>Have they kept users from syncing remotely? No, you still have Bluetooth,
>>IR, and WiFi with Exchange Server.
> Actually yes they have. BT and IR are relatively short range technologies
> that prodiminantly depend on a line of sight between the PPC and PC. Not
> entirely so on the BT side but that isn't the issue. Wifi with exchange is
> a significantly different and more secure process than syncing with the
> desktop version of Outlook via AS. There is inherent security built into
> that connection not available in the AS system.
>
>>So what, precisely, are they protecting us against?
> The entiely open transmission of all the contacts, calendar, tasks, files,
> etc that are passed during an AS session over the internet when you are
> sitting at a free wifi hotspot at the local coffee shop.
>
> The vulnerability is documented and easy to find on the web.
>
> Are there ways to fix it? Sure, but they do take time and effort and
> resources. You are a programmer. Do you spend time and effort on things
> that your management believes are not critical, at the expense of things
> that are?
>
> Sven
> MVP - Mobile Devices
>

My experience is you do NOT have the "precious 64MB available" or anything
like it available. That if you are lucky you may have something like 30MB
available and more likely 20MB to 25MB.

--
David {MVP}
Microsoft Mobile Devices
Mobile AntiVirus Researchers Association

Please post *ALL* questions and replies to the news group for the mutual
benefit of all of us...
The MS-MVP Program - http://mvp.support.microsoft.com
The MARA Program - http://www.mobileav.org/index.html

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights...


Spelling and grammar errors left in for those that need a little joy in
their life by correcting me.

"Clint" <nobody.TakeThisOut@nowhere.non> wrote in message
news:epX7sJvFGHA.1396@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> I'll second Clinton's recommendation, but say that I haven't spent a lot
> of time in WM5 yet. I also upgraded once, then stepped back for awhile
> before hitting it again. My reason for upgrading wasn't necessarily the
> Persistant Storage, but a semi-related item. It's the way that WM5
> handles memory as a whole. In 2003, there's 3 types of memory; RAM, ROM
> (aka Built In Storage), and removable (SD, CF, etc). If you do default
> software installations, you'll clutter up your precious RAM, of which you
> only have 64MB, and about 25 to 30 MB usable after the OS and everything
> else is loaded. Then you have the ever popular memory slider, where you
> try to juggle the memory allocations. You can chose to install
> applications and data to the BIS (Built In Storage) or the SD cards, but
> it's the exception to every installation.
>
> With WM5, there are the same 3 memory types, but the handling of them is
> shuffled around. RAM is used strictly for executing applications, much
> like the RAM on your computer. ROM is used similar to a computer's HD;
> for storing data and applications. Now, you still only have 128MB of
> storage, so I usually install the apps there, and put the data on my SD
> card. When I get around to picking up a CF card, I'll probably use that
> for media (music, videos) simply because it's easier to get larger CF
> memory for cheap that SD memory (I've got a 1GB card). The default
> installation for new apps will be to ROM, and you can chose to install it
> to your removable storage if you wish.
>
> But in WM5, there is no option to install apps to RAM. There's also no
> memory slider (since you can't install to RAM). So you have your precious
> 64MB available for applications, all the time. Now, one thing some people
> notice is that WM5 uses more RAM for the OS itself. That's a tradeoff I'm
> willing to accept.
>
> One thing to note is that AFAIK, you MUST use ActiveSync 4.x for WM5
> sychronization. And in 4.x, you lose the ability to sync over the
> network. You can still sync via Bluetooth or IR, but IMHO, that's a
> kludge. I fought with my BT sync the other night, till my battery died.
> Sometimes it would work, sometimes not. The WiFi sync in AS 3.8 seemed to
> be much more robust. But MS says its a "feature" to have the WiFi sync
> removed, so I doubt we'll see it back anytime soon.
>
> I also still have issues of slowdown, for whatever reason. There's talk
> about the filesys.exe taking over the system every once in a while, which
> is causing this on other people's machines. If it doesn't get any worse,
> I'll probably stick it out, and hope for the next ROM upgrade from Dell to
> fix things. You might also want to check out www.aximsite.com, if you
> haven't already. Lot's of users in the same boat as you, and they're
> familiar with your machine.
> --
> Clint
> "Clinton Fitch [MVP-Mobile Devices]"
> <management.TakeThisOut@NOSPAMMINGME.clintonfitch.com> wrote in message
> news:%23xV4D%23uFGHA.3200@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>> Tony,
>>
>> I have a x50v that I have upgraded to WM5. The upgrade was a bit of a
>> challenge and at one point I ended up going back to WM2003. I stuck with
>> it though and improved my upgrade strategy and I've been happy since.
>> You can find out that upgrade strategy here:
>> http://groups.google.de/group/microsoft.public.pocketpc/browse_thread/...ead/200
>>
>> Overall I've been happy with the upgrade and have actually found very few
>> applications that don't work well on WM5. The biggest problems seem to
>> be around PIM applications. I use Pocket Informant for example and I had
>> to get the free upgrade to make it happy.
>>
>> As to if it is a waste of time, that is tough to say. If you are happy
>> with WM2003 there is no reason to upgrade frankly. If however you want
>> things like Persistent Storage (which was my key driver) then it is worth
>> it. I've got an editorial on that at
>> http://www.clintonfitch.com/editorials/112005/wm5sold/default.asp.
>>
>> Hope this helps,
>>
>>
>> --
>> Clinton Fitch [MVP-Mobile Devices]
>> Principle
>> Clinton Fitch (Dot) Com!
>> http://www.clintonfitch.com
>>
>>
>>
>> "Tony" <tony7_146879_5878.TakeThisOut@no-spam.org.uk> wrote in message
>> news:42l7s7F1joubpU1@individual.net...
>>> Ihave heard varying reports on the success of using Windows Mobile 5 on
>>> the
>>> Axim x50v. I think generally they hve been more negative than positive.
>>> Is
>>> there any reason to upgrade to WM5, or is it just not worth the hassle?
>>> Ihave also heard that a lot of software won't run in WM5.
>>>
>>> My system runs happily at present and works a treat, and also all the
>>> software I use runs well in 2003SE.
>>>
>>> Would I be wasting my time thinking about trying to upgrade to WM5 at
>>> the
>>> moment?
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Tony
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

My point with that was that no applications are installed in that 64MB. On
a 2003 machine, you could easily install a half dozen apps in the default
location, and chew up all your available memory. In WM5, you can't (AFAIK).
I realize (and tried to make it clear) that the OS eats up a good chunk of
that 64MB. But in general, the behaviour is much more like a "real"
computer with regards to memory handling.

--
Clint
"David {MVP}" <dhettel.RemoveThis@fuse.net> wrote in message
news:uEJyKW4FGHA.2300@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
> My experience is you do NOT have the "precious 64MB available" or anything
> like it available. That if you are lucky you may have something like 30MB
> available and more likely 20MB to 25MB.
>
> --
> David {MVP}
> Microsoft Mobile Devices
> Mobile AntiVirus Researchers Association
>
> Please post *ALL* questions and replies to the news group for the mutual
> benefit of all of us...
> The MS-MVP Program - http://mvp.support.microsoft.com
> The MARA Program - http://www.mobileav.org/index.html
>
> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
> rights...
>
>
> Spelling and grammar errors left in for those that need a little joy in
> their life by correcting me.
>
> "Clint" <nobody.RemoveThis@nowhere.non> wrote in message
> news:epX7sJvFGHA.1396@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
>> I'll second Clinton's recommendation, but say that I haven't spent a lot
>> of time in WM5 yet. I also upgraded once, then stepped back for awhile
>> before hitting it again. My reason for upgrading wasn't necessarily the
>> Persistant Storage, but a semi-related item. It's the way that WM5
>> handles memory as a whole. In 2003, there's 3 types of memory; RAM, ROM
>> (aka Built In Storage), and removable (SD, CF, etc). If you do default
>> software installations, you'll clutter up your precious RAM, of which you
>> only have 64MB, and about 25 to 30 MB usable after the OS and everything
>> else is loaded. Then you have the ever popular memory slider, where you
>> try to juggle the memory allocations. You can chose to install
>> applications and data to the BIS (Built In Storage) or the SD cards, but
>> it's the exception to every installation.
>>
>> With WM5, there are the same 3 memory types, but the handling of them is
>> shuffled around. RAM is used strictly for executing applications, much
>> like the RAM on your computer. ROM is used similar to a computer's HD;
>> for storing data and applications. Now, you still only have 128MB of
>> storage, so I usually install the apps there, and put the data on my SD
>> card. When I get around to picking up a CF card, I'll probably use that
>> for media (music, videos) simply because it's easier to get larger CF
>> memory for cheap that SD memory (I've got a 1GB card). The default
>> installation for new apps will be to ROM, and you can chose to install it
>> to your removable storage if you wish.
>>
>> But in WM5, there is no option to install apps to RAM. There's also no
>> memory slider (since you can't install to RAM). So you have your
>> precious 64MB available for applications, all the time. Now, one thing
>> some people notice is that WM5 uses more RAM for the OS itself. That's a
>> tradeoff I'm willing to accept.
>>
>> One thing to note is that AFAIK, you MUST use ActiveSync 4.x for WM5
>> sychronization. And in 4.x, you lose the ability to sync over the
>> network. You can still sync via Bluetooth or IR, but IMHO, that's a
>> kludge. I fought with my BT sync the other night, till my battery died.
>> Sometimes it would work, sometimes not. The WiFi sync in AS 3.8 seemed
>> to be much more robust. But MS says its a "feature" to have the WiFi sync
>> removed, so I doubt we'll see it back anytime soon.
>>
>> I also still have issues of slowdown, for whatever reason. There's talk
>> about the filesys.exe taking over the system every once in a while, which
>> is causing this on other people's machines. If it doesn't get any worse,
>> I'll probably stick it out, and hope for the next ROM upgrade from Dell
>> to fix things. You might also want to check out www.aximsite.com, if you
>> haven't already. Lot's of users in the same boat as you, and they're
>> familiar with your machine.
>> --
>> Clint
>> "Clinton Fitch [MVP-Mobile Devices]"
>> <management.RemoveThis@NOSPAMMINGME.clintonfitch.com> wrote in message
>> news:%23xV4D%23uFGHA.3200@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>>> Tony,
>>>
>>> I have a x50v that I have upgraded to WM5. The upgrade was a bit of a
>>> challenge and at one point I ended up going back to WM2003. I stuck
>>> with it though and improved my upgrade strategy and I've been happy
>>> since. You can find out that upgrade strategy here:
>>> http://groups.google.de/group/microsoft.public.pocketpc/browse_thread/...ead/200
>>>
>>> Overall I've been happy with the upgrade and have actually found very
>>> few applications that don't work well on WM5. The biggest problems seem
>>> to be around PIM applications. I use Pocket Informant for example and I
>>> had to get the free upgrade to make it happy.
>>>
>>> As to if it is a waste of time, that is tough to say. If you are happy
>>> with WM2003 there is no reason to upgrade frankly. If however you want
>>> things like Persistent Storage (which was my key driver) then it is
>>> worth it. I've got an editorial on that at
>>> http://www.clintonfitch.com/editorials/112005/wm5sold/default.asp.
>>>
>>> Hope this helps,
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Clinton Fitch [MVP-Mobile Devices]
>>> Principle
>>> Clinton Fitch (Dot) Com!
>>> http://www.clintonfitch.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Tony" <tony7_146879_5878.RemoveThis@no-spam.org.uk> wrote in message
>>> news:42l7s7F1joubpU1@individual.net...
>>>> Ihave heard varying reports on the success of using Windows Mobile 5 on
>>>> the
>>>> Axim x50v. I think generally they hve been more negative than
>>>> positive. Is
>>>> there any reason to upgrade to WM5, or is it just not worth the hassle?
>>>> Ihave also heard that a lot of software won't run in WM5.
>>>>
>>>> My system runs happily at present and works a treat, and also all the
>>>> software I use runs well in 2003SE.
>>>>
>>>> Would I be wasting my time thinking about trying to upgrade to WM5 at
>>>> the
>>>> moment?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>>
>>>> Tony
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

e-mail me and I'll send you one on the first page of my search. I would have
done so already but I don't think what you have as a reply e-mail is
accurate. It's certainly not secret, but I see no reason to post here.

You've kind of covered things with your paragraph ending sentences.

>How much effort would it have been to do it in a way that gave some
>flexibility? 10%? 25%? 100%? AFAIK, neither you or I know the answer to
>that. I know I don't.

>If we can't afford to do it right, we can't afford to do it wrong, either.

I prefer to think that they did consider the impact and determined that the
right thing to do was fix the issue in a way they believed would affect the
least folks, and not unduly upset the development process at the same time.
I find it hard to believe that they discovered it was an easy fix, and they
would rather tick off people than implement it.


--
Sven
MVP - Mobile Devices
"Clint" <nobody DeleteThis @nowhere.non> wrote in message
news:eeVHgH4FGHA.1088@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> I've done my google searches for this documentation, and all I've been
> able to come up with is people complaining about the feature removal. If
> you know the magic keywords to find the documentation, I'd appreciate it.
> A direct link would be appreciated even more.

E-mail sent. Thanks in advance.

--
Clint
"Sven" <sejohannsen RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:%23AMKGPVGGHA.1032@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
> e-mail me and I'll send you one on the first page of my search. I would
> have done so already but I don't think what you have as a reply e-mail is
> accurate. It's certainly not secret, but I see no reason to post here.
>
> You've kind of covered things with your paragraph ending sentences.
>
>>How much effort would it have been to do it in a way that gave some
>>flexibility? 10%? 25%? 100%? AFAIK, neither you or I know the answer
>>to that. I know I don't.
>
>>If we can't afford to do it right, we can't afford to do it wrong, either.
>
> I prefer to think that they did consider the impact and determined that
> the right thing to do was fix the issue in a way they believed would
> affect the least folks, and not unduly upset the development process at
> the same time. I find it hard to believe that they discovered it was an
> easy fix, and they would rather tick off people than implement it.
>
>
> --
> Sven
> MVP - Mobile Devices
> "Clint" <nobody RemoveThis @nowhere.non> wrote in message
> news:eeVHgH4FGHA.1088@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>> I've done my google searches for this documentation, and all I've been
>> able to come up with is people complaining about the feature removal. If
>> you know the magic keywords to find the documentation, I'd appreciate it.
>> A direct link would be appreciated even more.
>
>

Until Microsoft gets some serious fixes to the system I
would wait.

Issues include...Notifications hanging and requiring a
clear reboot. You loose everything, except the installed
OS..Very serious and frustrating.

Intermittent battery run down for no reason (unit gets
very warm and never turns on) then you have a dead
battery.

No backup program. Persistent storage is nice, but
backups are nicer!!

For my ipaq 2495 occasional hangs with finger print
recognition for no reason. Requires soft reboot (May be
HP or Microsoft)



In article <42l7s7F1joubpU1 RemoveThis @individual.net>, tony7_
146879_5878 RemoveThis @no-spam.org.uk says...
> Ihave heard varying reports on the success of using Windows Mobile 5 on the
> Axim x50v. I think generally they hve been more negative than positive. Is
> there any reason to upgrade to WM5, or is it just not worth the hassle?
> Ihave also heard that a lot of software won't run in WM5.
>
> My system runs happily at present and works a treat, and also all the
> software I use runs well in 2003SE.
>
> Would I be wasting my time thinking about trying to upgrade to WM5 at the
> moment?
>
> Thanks
>
> Tony
>
>
>