Power leak?

"Tedd Riggs" <T_Riggs.DeleteThis@msn.C0M> wrote in message
news:un9pmeU0DHA.2676@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> Unless yours is one of the PDA's that "wake-up" at midnight (Some users
have
> this, others do not) There is nothing really going on with you PDA to
drain
> power except for turning on the CPU at XX intervals to check for alarms
> (uses very little power)
> However...like most batteries, just sitting there they will self discharge
> some. I have a 3635 I keep on my sailboat for GPS and it seems to be fine
> for the week and when I get there on the Weekend, its still got most of
its
> charge.
> Hope this helps
> Tedd
>
Many thanks Tedd, I'll give it a go. (I made sure I did a hard reset so have
no alarms etc. and just installed TomTom so its no big deal if I have to
reinstall).

An supplementary question however, can a full backup of the machine be made
to a CF card so if the worse happens and I'm away I can merely restore
everything?

Thanks again

Ted

Hi Ted (gee I feel like I am talking to myself !)
Yes as long as you CF card is large enough, you can do a full back-up and
depending which backup program is on your PDA, you can also have the back-up
stored on your PC. My Ipaq has that option.
The backup seems to save about 90% of everything, what it does not save (in
my use) is the startup info, like the owner, time zone and that stuff, but
those are easy to put back anyway.
Tedd

--
Tedd Riggs

"Ted Rogers" <ted.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ueEYBDV0DHA.2568@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>
> "Tedd Riggs" <T_Riggs.TakeThisOut@msn.C0M> wrote in message
> news:un9pmeU0DHA.2676@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> > Unless yours is one of the PDA's that "wake-up" at midnight (Some users
> have
> > this, others do not) There is nothing really going on with you PDA to
> drain
> > power except for turning on the CPU at XX intervals to check for alarms
> > (uses very little power)
> > However...like most batteries, just sitting there they will self
discharge
> > some. I have a 3635 I keep on my sailboat for GPS and it seems to be
fine
> > for the week and when I get there on the Weekend, its still got most of
> its
> > charge.
> > Hope this helps
> > Tedd
> >
> Many thanks Tedd, I'll give it a go. (I made sure I did a hard reset so
have
> no alarms etc. and just installed TomTom so its no big deal if I have to
> reinstall).
>
> An supplementary question however, can a full backup of the machine be
made
> to a CF card so if the worse happens and I'm away I can merely restore
> everything?
>
> Thanks again
>
> Ted
>
>
>

On Fri, 2 Jan 2004 07:44:25 -0800, "Tedd Riggs" <T_Riggs DeleteThis @msn.C0M>
wrote:

>Unless yours is one of the PDA's that "wake-up" at midnight (Some users have
>this, others do not) There is nothing really going on with you PDA to drain
>power except for turning on the CPU at XX intervals to check for alarms
>(uses very little power)
>However...like most batteries, just sitting there they will self discharge

I'm pretty sure RAM uses a small, but continuous, current. That's why
it loses all memory when a battery is drained. And I _think_ that
drains the batteries faster than any self-discharge.


>some. I have a 3635 I keep on my sailboat for GPS and it seems to be fine
>for the week and when I get there on the Weekend, its still got most of its
>charge.

That last sentence is the kind of info that matters here. More
important than my nit picking above. This "shelf" life varies greatly
from model to model. I've seen some industrial Windows CE that need to
be recharged every 2-3 days, even if not used. Towards the other
extreme, Palm Pilots (I know, heresy in this forum), at least the
early ones, needed recharging only every few weeks even when used
daily.

I'm pretty sure I've seen discussions of "shelf" life. But I just made
a few attempts with google and didn't find any (way too many hits to
see much of anything). I _did_ find a discussion about life time (as
in time before need of replacement).

>Hope this helps
>Tedd
>
>--
>Tedd Riggs
>
>"Ted Rogers" <ted DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:esi2KQU0DHA.208@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
>> I have just bought a new Ipaq and am keeping my 3870 exclusively for GPS
>use
>> in the car. I would like to keep it in the car but may mean that I
>wouldn't
>> use if for two, three days (maybe more) at a time.
>>
>> This may sound a stupid question but does it use any power when switched
>off
>> for long periods in this way?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Ted
>>
>>
>
>

-----------------------------------------
To reply to me, remove the underscores (_) from my email address (and please indicate which newsgroup and message).

Robert E. Zaret
PenFact, Inc.
500 Harrison Ave., Suite 3R
Boston, MA 02118
www.penfact.com

Sure RAM does use a very small amount of power, but since the CPU is not
running and not address the RAM, the current is tiny and should not drain
the battery fast at all. However if things are actually running, that can
really wipe it out or if the person leaves the IR Receive on, that will kill
the batteries fast. I believe that on some units, if you have IR receive on,
it is on even when the unit is off and will "wake up" with an IR beam. Not
sure this is correct, just have heard it said.

--
Tedd Riggs

<r_z_aret DeleteThis @pen_fact.com> wrote in message
news:3ff7116b.107383218@nntp.theworld.com...
> On Fri, 2 Jan 2004 07:44:25 -0800, "Tedd Riggs" <T_Riggs DeleteThis @msn.C0M>
> wrote:
>
> >Unless yours is one of the PDA's that "wake-up" at midnight (Some users
have
> >this, others do not) There is nothing really going on with you PDA to
drain
> >power except for turning on the CPU at XX intervals to check for alarms
> >(uses very little power)
> >However...like most batteries, just sitting there they will self
discharge
>
> I'm pretty sure RAM uses a small, but continuous, current. That's why
> it loses all memory when a battery is drained. And I _think_ that
> drains the batteries faster than any self-discharge.
>
>
> >some. I have a 3635 I keep on my sailboat for GPS and it seems to be fine
> >for the week and when I get there on the Weekend, its still got most of
its
> >charge.
>
> That last sentence is the kind of info that matters here. More
> important than my nit picking above. This "shelf" life varies greatly
> from model to model. I've seen some industrial Windows CE that need to
> be recharged every 2-3 days, even if not used. Towards the other
> extreme, Palm Pilots (I know, heresy in this forum), at least the
> early ones, needed recharging only every few weeks even when used
> daily.
>
> I'm pretty sure I've seen discussions of "shelf" life. But I just made
> a few attempts with google and didn't find any (way too many hits to
> see much of anything). I _did_ find a discussion about life time (as
> in time before need of replacement).
>
> >Hope this helps
> >Tedd
> >
> >--
> >Tedd Riggs
> >
> >"Ted Rogers" <ted DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:esi2KQU0DHA.208@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> >> I have just bought a new Ipaq and am keeping my 3870 exclusively for
GPS
> >use
> >> in the car. I would like to keep it in the car but may mean that I
> >wouldn't
> >> use if for two, three days (maybe more) at a time.
> >>
> >> This may sound a stupid question but does it use any power when
switched
> >off
> >> for long periods in this way?
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >>
> >> Ted
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
> -----------------------------------------
> To reply to me, remove the underscores (_) from my email address (and
please indicate which newsgroup and message).
>
> Robert E. Zaret
> PenFact, Inc.
> 500 Harrison Ave., Suite 3R
> Boston, MA 02118
> www.penfact.com

Actually, all Pocket PC's (that I'm aware of) "wake up" at midnight to do
some maintenance, including alarms, schedules, etc. It will normally power
back off after a short time. With some earlier PPC, if you have an
application that normally runs continuously in the background (such as a
media player), the PPC would occasionally remain on due to the background
app.

Otherwise, much of the "OFF" power is consumed by the battery backup of the
SDRAM. SDRAM consumes considerably more power than static RAM, which is
what is normally used as battery backed RAM. PPC use SDRAM to get a
reasonable amount of memory (32MB to 128MB) in a small amount of space.
DRAMs are smaller than static RAM (SRAM), but consume more power during
backup since the refresh cycles must still be maintained.

<r_z_aret.DeleteThis@pen_fact.com> wrote in message
news:3ff7116b.107383218@nntp.theworld.com...
> On Fri, 2 Jan 2004 07:44:25 -0800, "Tedd Riggs" <T_Riggs.DeleteThis@msn.C0M>
> wrote:
>
> >Unless yours is one of the PDA's that "wake-up" at midnight (Some users
have
> >this, others do not) There is nothing really going on with you PDA to
drain
> >power except for turning on the CPU at XX intervals to check for alarms
> >(uses very little power)
> >However...like most batteries, just sitting there they will self
discharge
>
> I'm pretty sure RAM uses a small, but continuous, current. That's why
> it loses all memory when a battery is drained. And I _think_ that
> drains the batteries faster than any self-discharge.
>
>
> >some. I have a 3635 I keep on my sailboat for GPS and it seems to be fine
> >for the week and when I get there on the Weekend, its still got most of
its
> >charge.
>
> That last sentence is the kind of info that matters here. More
> important than my nit picking above. This "shelf" life varies greatly
> from model to model. I've seen some industrial Windows CE that need to
> be recharged every 2-3 days, even if not used. Towards the other
> extreme, Palm Pilots (I know, heresy in this forum), at least the
> early ones, needed recharging only every few weeks even when used
> daily.
>
> I'm pretty sure I've seen discussions of "shelf" life. But I just made
> a few attempts with google and didn't find any (way too many hits to
> see much of anything). I _did_ find a discussion about life time (as
> in time before need of replacement).
>
> >Hope this helps
> >Tedd
> >
> >--
> >Tedd Riggs
> >
> >"Ted Rogers" <ted.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:esi2KQU0DHA.208@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> >> I have just bought a new Ipaq and am keeping my 3870 exclusively for
GPS
> >use
> >> in the car. I would like to keep it in the car but may mean that I
> >wouldn't
> >> use if for two, three days (maybe more) at a time.
> >>
> >> This may sound a stupid question but does it use any power when
switched
> >off
> >> for long periods in this way?
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >>
> >> Ted
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
> -----------------------------------------
> To reply to me, remove the underscores (_) from my email address (and
please indicate which newsgroup and message).
>
> Robert E. Zaret
> PenFact, Inc.
> 500 Harrison Ave., Suite 3R
> Boston, MA 02118
> www.penfact.com

Tedd,

> should not drain
> the battery fast at all.
>

Hmm. 7 to 10 percent per dayon my iPaq 5450 is pretty fast, in my book.
It's a totally normal value for PocketPCs, too, as far as I know.

--
Thomas Borchert, Sun, 04 Jan 2004 14:22 +0100

Thomas,
Yes I agree if it is a 7-10 % drain per day, that would kill the battery
fast. I have not measured this for years, last time was with a multimeter
connected to an older iPaq 3635 and I was thinking it was about 3 mAH per
day. But your 100% right, at the drain rates you have, the thing will not
last long at all
Thanks for the update
Tedd

--
Tedd Riggs

"Thomas Borchert" <borchert_thomas.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:VA.00006241.04fdcf29@hotmail.com...
> Tedd,
>
> > should not drain
> > the battery fast at all.
> >
>
> Hmm. 7 to 10 percent per dayon my iPaq 5450 is pretty fast, in my book.
> It's a totally normal value for PocketPCs, too, as far as I know.
>
> --
> Thomas Borchert, Sun, 04 Jan 2004 14:22 +0100
>

On Sat, 3 Jan 2004 14:13:43 -0800, "Tedd Riggs" <T_Riggs@MSN,C0M>
wrote:

>Sure RAM does use a very small amount of power, but since the CPU is not
>running and not address the RAM, the current is tiny and should not drain
>the battery fast at all. However if things are actually running, that can
>really wipe it out or if the person leaves the IR Receive on, that will kill
>the batteries fast. I believe that on some units, if you have IR receive on,
>it is on even when the unit is off and will "wake up" with an IR beam. Not
>sure this is correct, just have heard it said.

The industrial units I've seen drain batteries have built-in wireless
(802.11) that seems to be on all the time.

>
>--
>Tedd Riggs
>
><r_z_aret DeleteThis @pen_fact.com> wrote in message
>news:3ff7116b.107383218@nntp.theworld.com...
>> On Fri, 2 Jan 2004 07:44:25 -0800, "Tedd Riggs" <T_Riggs DeleteThis @msn.C0M>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Unless yours is one of the PDA's that "wake-up" at midnight (Some users
>have
>> >this, others do not) There is nothing really going on with you PDA to
>drain
>> >power except for turning on the CPU at XX intervals to check for alarms
>> >(uses very little power)
>> >However...like most batteries, just sitting there they will self
>discharge
>>
>> I'm pretty sure RAM uses a small, but continuous, current. That's why
>> it loses all memory when a battery is drained. And I _think_ that
>> drains the batteries faster than any self-discharge.
>>
>>
>> >some. I have a 3635 I keep on my sailboat for GPS and it seems to be fine
>> >for the week and when I get there on the Weekend, its still got most of
>its
>> >charge.
>>
>> That last sentence is the kind of info that matters here. More
>> important than my nit picking above. This "shelf" life varies greatly
>> from model to model. I've seen some industrial Windows CE that need to
>> be recharged every 2-3 days, even if not used. Towards the other
>> extreme, Palm Pilots (I know, heresy in this forum), at least the
>> early ones, needed recharging only every few weeks even when used
>> daily.
>>
>> I'm pretty sure I've seen discussions of "shelf" life. But I just made
>> a few attempts with google and didn't find any (way too many hits to
>> see much of anything). I _did_ find a discussion about life time (as
>> in time before need of replacement).
>>
>> >Hope this helps
>> >Tedd
>> >
>> >--
>> >Tedd Riggs
>> >
>> >"Ted Rogers" <ted DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> >news:esi2KQU0DHA.208@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
>> >> I have just bought a new Ipaq and am keeping my 3870 exclusively for
>GPS
>> >use
>> >> in the car. I would like to keep it in the car but may mean that I
>> >wouldn't
>> >> use if for two, three days (maybe more) at a time.
>> >>
>> >> This may sound a stupid question but does it use any power when
>switched
>> >off
>> >> for long periods in this way?
>> >>
>> >> Thanks
>> >>
>> >> Ted
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>> -----------------------------------------
>> To reply to me, remove the underscores (_) from my email address (and
>please indicate which newsgroup and message).
>>
>> Robert E. Zaret
>> PenFact, Inc.
>> 500 Harrison Ave., Suite 3R
>> Boston, MA 02118
>> www.penfact.com
>
>

-----------------------------------------
To reply to me, remove the underscores (_) from my email address (and please indicate which newsgroup and message).

Robert E. Zaret
PenFact, Inc.
500 Harrison Ave., Suite 3R
Boston, MA 02118
www.penfact.com

Ted,

FYI - there are known problems with *some hardware... mostly SD cards and
the like, that continue to pull large amount of juice even when the device
is off. I found some interesting problems with the Socket CD barcode
scanner on a few devices. The best, and *only way to guarantee that a device
doesn't drain your ppc is to unplug device when not in use.

You might want to check into the car power adapters at www.gomadic.com - I
have one in my car... and it works really well.

Rick Winscot
www.zyche.com


"Ted Rogers" <ted.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:esi2KQU0DHA.208@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> I have just bought a new Ipaq and am keeping my 3870 exclusively for GPS
use
> in the car. I would like to keep it in the car but may mean that I
wouldn't
> use if for two, three days (maybe more) at a time.
>
> This may sound a stupid question but does it use any power when switched
off
> for long periods in this way?
>
> Thanks
>
> Ted
>
>

"Rick Winscot" <rickly@zyche_dot_com> wrote in message news:<eyI1k6f9DHA.2856.DeleteThis@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl>...

> Ted,
>
> FYI - there are known problems with *some hardware... mostly SD cards and
> the like, that continue to pull large amount of juice even when the device
> is off. I found some interesting problems with the Socket CD barcode
> scanner on a few devices. The best, and *only way to guarantee that a device
> doesn't drain your ppc is to unplug device when not in use.
>
> You might want to check into the car power adapters at www.gomadic.com - I
> have one in my car... and it works really well.
>
> Rick Winscot
> www.zyche.com

In my experience, the iPAQ drain their battery pretty fast, even in
standby mode (see my other post about standby battery life).
I don't understand why, as palmos devices manage to live much longer
with color screen, and about the same amount of RAM.

Everybody tell me to charge the damn thing everynight but I don't like
depending on a PDA which depends on me to remember to charge it so
often
I always have a Palm sync'ed to my outlook data as a backup, and as a
result I only use the pocketpc for GPS as I don't find it reliable
enough for PIM (and this is without speaking of the infamous
"forgotten" alarm bug)

P.