Weird audio phenomenon

In article <1j8ed66.87dgpmjwsxg6N%dempson@actrix.gen.nz>,
dempson RemoveThis @actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) wrote:

> W^3 <aderamey.addw RemoveThis @comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > I usually create playlists in iTunes, then move them over to Toast 8
> > to burn a CD. iTunes, even at it's loudest setting, is quieter than
> > Toast, which has no overall volume adjustment as far as I can see. OK,
> > I'm used to that. But today I notice there is a marked difference in
> > the *relative* loudness of certain songs in the two programs. For
> > example, in iTunes, songs 1 and 2 can sound pretty much in volume
> > alignment with each other, while if I put them in Toast, song 1 can
> > much louder than song 2. Anyone know what could explain this?
>
> iTunes has a feature called "Sound Check" which automatically adjusts
> the volume levels of songs. Do you have that turned on?
>
> Toast will be burning them based on the unmodified volume level.

Of course! I remember turning that on once, and completely forgot
about it. Thanks a million.

In article <4aea46b3$0$31484$ba624c82@nntp06.dk.telia.net>,
Erik Richard Sørensen <NOSPAM.RemoveThis@NOSPAM.dk> wrote:

> W^3 wrote:
> > I usually create playlists in iTunes, then move them over to Toast 8
> > to burn a CD. iTunes, even at it's loudest setting, is quieter than
> > Toast, which has no overall volume adjustment as far as I can see. OK,
> > I'm used to that. But today I notice there is a marked difference in
> > the *relative* loudness of certain songs in the two programs. For
> > example, in iTunes, songs 1 and 2 can sound pretty much in volume
> > alignment with each other, while if I put them in Toast, song 1 can
> > much louder than song 2. Anyone know what could explain this?
>
> Don't remember what's called in English, since I use a Danish version of
> iTunes, but iTunes has a setting wherre all sounds are leveled to be the
> same in the playback mode...
>
> So if song number one is much higher recorded/saved than song number
> two, this will be enlightened in Toast. And again - if song number three
> is much lower in the tune, iTunes will increase the volume to
> 'normalize' towards the other songs, but when moved to Toast, it will be
> difinetivbely lower than other songs.
>
> This can be very irretating when listening to a finished CD/DVD and
> songs are playhing by near at same volume, and suddenly a song just
> burst in volume maybe as much as 10-15db, which is very much, and then
> the next song is by near jujst as much lower than the middle range of
> all songs.
>
> The only real thing to be done about this is to open each song in an
> sound editor/recorder app such as Amadeus II/Pro and for some songs it's
> needed to increase amplification and for other songs to de-amplify. -
> You can always see the volume when opened in Amadeus and if the spectre
> is much lower, then you need to amplify, and if the spectre show near to
> the top, it might be a very good idea to decrease amplification -
> especially with tracks that have very high and very compressed dynamics.
>
> You don't mention which version of Toast, but in both Toast 8.x, 9.x and
> 10.x you can also 'normalize' i.e. equalize the sound volume levels in
> the Toast list by selecting all songs and in the menu 'Discs' go down to
> 'Normalize Tracks'. This will then equalize all tracks to the best
> volume level before burning to a music CD or mp3 CD/DVD.

You may have missed where I mentioned Toast 8. But yes, the ability to
adjust volumes from track to track is one of the main reasons I use
Toast, even though it seems a little buggy. I don't quite trust the
global volume normalization function in Toast, so I do it by ear.

I have Amadeus Pro too. I use that for more serious editing - usually
in cutting a track down to fewer minutes. It's always a challenge to
splice well. for example, I haven't yet been able to do this with
Steely Dan's Aja, a good song but in my opinion not a good jazz piece.
I'd like to cut a lot of the "jazz" nonsense out of there, but just
can't find the right splice points yet.

Making a good CD mix is a minor art form. I don't think it can be done
without an editor like Amadeus, and at least a rudimentary "mastering"
capability, such as that provided by Toast. Burning raw from iTunes
leads to lousy mixes because of fixed pauses and wild volume
fluctuations.

Thanks for your post.

> Cheers, Erik Richard

In article <aderamey.addw-595452.16464530102009 DeleteThis @News.Individual.NET>,
W^3 <aderamey.addw DeleteThis @comcast.net> wrote:

> In article <4aea46b3$0$31484$ba624c82@nntp06.dk.telia.net>,
> Erik Richard Sørensen <NOSPAM DeleteThis @NOSPAM.dk> wrote:
>
> > W^3 wrote:
> > > I usually create playlists in iTunes, then move them over to Toast 8
> > > to burn a CD. iTunes, even at it's loudest setting, is quieter than
> > > Toast, which has no overall volume adjustment as far as I can see. OK,
> > > I'm used to that. But today I notice there is a marked difference in
> > > the *relative* loudness of certain songs in the two programs. For
> > > example, in iTunes, songs 1 and 2 can sound pretty much in volume
> > > alignment with each other, while if I put them in Toast, song 1 can
> > > much louder than song 2. Anyone know what could explain this?
> >
> > Don't remember what's called in English, since I use a Danish version of
> > iTunes, but iTunes has a setting wherre all sounds are leveled to be the
> > same in the playback mode...
> >
> > So if song number one is much higher recorded/saved than song number
> > two, this will be enlightened in Toast. And again - if song number three
> > is much lower in the tune, iTunes will increase the volume to
> > 'normalize' towards the other songs, but when moved to Toast, it will be
> > difinetivbely lower than other songs.
> >
> > This can be very irretating when listening to a finished CD/DVD and
> > songs are playhing by near at same volume, and suddenly a song just
> > burst in volume maybe as much as 10-15db, which is very much, and then
> > the next song is by near jujst as much lower than the middle range of
> > all songs.
> >
> > The only real thing to be done about this is to open each song in an
> > sound editor/recorder app such as Amadeus II/Pro and for some songs it's
> > needed to increase amplification and for other songs to de-amplify. -
> > You can always see the volume when opened in Amadeus and if the spectre
> > is much lower, then you need to amplify, and if the spectre show near to
> > the top, it might be a very good idea to decrease amplification -
> > especially with tracks that have very high and very compressed dynamics.
> >
> > You don't mention which version of Toast, but in both Toast 8.x, 9.x and
> > 10.x you can also 'normalize' i.e. equalize the sound volume levels in
> > the Toast list by selecting all songs and in the menu 'Discs' go down to
> > 'Normalize Tracks'. This will then equalize all tracks to the best
> > volume level before burning to a music CD or mp3 CD/DVD.
>
> You may have missed where I mentioned Toast 8. But yes, the ability to
> adjust volumes from track to track is one of the main reasons I use
> Toast, even though it seems a little buggy. I don't quite trust the
> global volume normalization function in Toast, so I do it by ear.
>
> I have Amadeus Pro too. I use that for more serious editing - usually
> in cutting a track down to fewer minutes. It's always a challenge to
> splice well. for example, I haven't yet been able to do this with
> Steely Dan's Aja, a good song but in my opinion not a good jazz piece.
> I'd like to cut a lot of the "jazz" nonsense out of there, but just
> can't find the right splice points yet.
>
> Making a good CD mix is a minor art form. I don't think it can be done
> without an editor like Amadeus, and at least a rudimentary "mastering"
> capability, such as that provided by Toast. Burning raw from iTunes
> leads to lousy mixes because of fixed pauses and wild volume
> fluctuations.

PS: Now that even iTunes has gone DRM-free, could a version of iTunes
that has the minor editing features for CD burning mentioned above
(variable pauses and volume levels, maybe throw some cross fading in,
on a track by track basis) appear in the near future?