Snow Leopard Kills FireWire

Michelle Steiner <michelle.TakeThisOut@michelle.org> wrote:

> In article <schram-C72766.10562804092009.TakeThisOut@free.teranews.com>,
> Chris Schram <schram.TakeThisOut@webenet.net> wrote:
>
> > Here's the good part. I finally called Apple Tech Support. The
> > representative claimed that FireWire 400 support has ended with Snow
> > Leopard, and this problem will never be fixed.
>
> I think that he is FOS.

Indeed. I'd translate that as "I can't figure out what is going on and I
need to say something to make this guy go away." I've gotten brushoffs
like that from tech support people before (not Apple ones in particular,
but others), including for things that I later found the solution to
myself. (Don't try running Windows Quickbooks with your date display
configured as anything other than the US default; I dunno what Europeans
do).

Heck, Apple still sells a current model machine with a firewire 400
port, and that as the only firewire port. (Checking that is left as an
exercise for the student; I just did so). I'm supposed to believe that
they are shipping a machine today that has a firewire port, but which
they don't support with the softwar ethat ships with on the machine?
Admitedly, there is only one machine today like that, but there are
plenty of others that Snow Leopard claims to support and that have
firewire 400 ports. Such as the iMac I'm typing this on.

Yes, eventually support for old machines gets dropped. But when it does,
that tends to be rather prominently mentioned in the system
requirements. You'd expect to see a system requirements footnote saying
something like "the fw400 port on machines xxx is not supported." You
don't expect to find that out after installation by badgering tech
support. In fact, I'd say there would be a fair chance of them ending up
with legal liability issues for false advertising if they failed to have
such a disclaimer in the system requirements.

Not to speak of the fact that fw800 support pretty much inherently
includes fw400 support because you can validly put a fw400 device on a
fw800 chain with the appropriate cable.

And also not to speak of the details you mentioned, which obviously
showed that the port did work.

Someone is feeding you a line.

--
Richard Maine | Good judgment comes from experience;
email: last name at domain . net | experience comes from bad judgment.
domain: summertriangle | -- Mark Twain

In article <schram-C72766.10562804092009 RemoveThis @free.teranews.com>,
Chris Schram <schram RemoveThis @webenet.net> wrote:

> Here's the good part. I finally called Apple Tech Support. The
> representative claimed that FireWire 400 support has ended with Snow
> Leopard, and this problem will never be fixed. He could not explain to
> me why my FireWire Time machine drive still works like a champ.

He's full of it. Call Apple Support back and demand to talk to someone
who won't lie to you.

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In article <schram-C72766.10562804092009 DeleteThis @free.teranews.com>,
Chris Schram <schram DeleteThis @webenet.net> wrote:

> Yesterday I installed Snow Leopard from an external Pioneer DVR-116D
> within in an older LaCie FireWire 400/USB enclosure. The install went
> just fine except...
>
> Apple's applications (iTunes, Disk Utility, Finder) can't burn to that
> drive anymore when it's connected via FireWire.
>
> The drive works just fine when connected via the USB interface.
>
> Dragon Burn can access the drive just fine via FireWire. That might be a
> suitable workaround as long as I never wanted to burn a disk with iTunes
> or iPhoto.
>
> I've run the traditional troubleshooting steps: Repaired Permissions,
> Safe Mode, Guest account. FireWire persists in being a no-go.
>
> There are a few threads in Apples support forum regarding this same
> problem.
>
> Here's the good part. I finally called Apple Tech Support. The
> representative claimed that FireWire 400 support has ended with Snow
> Leopard, and this problem will never be fixed. He could not explain to
> me why my FireWire Time machine drive still works like a champ.

He might like to try to explain why the Gtech FireWire drive here works
just fine, both FW400 and FW800.

We'll wait. :}

> He threw the ball back in LaCie's court. All I know id the enclosure has
> LaCie's latest firmware for that model.

Chris Schram wrote:
> Here's the good part. I finally called Apple Tech Support. The
> representative claimed that FireWire 400 support has ended with Snow
> Leopard, and this problem will never be fixed. He could not explain to

"Your name again is ....?"

"Thank you. Shall I call back and ask whoever answers why you are lying
to me?"

--
Wes Groleau

From the cowardice that shrinks from new truth,
From the laziness that is content with half-truths,
From the arrogance that thinks it knows all truth,
O God of Truth, deliver us.
--Leslie Dixon Weatherhead
--Rabbi Mordechai M. Kaplan
--ancient prayer
--unknown
--(no attempt at attribution)
(a thousand thanks to someone who can tell me who
really wrote it AND persuade me they're not making it up!)

Chris Schram <schram.RemoveThis@webenet.net> wrote:

> Yesterday I installed Snow Leopard from an external Pioneer DVR-116D
> within in an older LaCie FireWire 400/USB enclosure. The install went
> just fine except...
>
> Apple's applications (iTunes, Disk Utility, Finder) can't burn to that
> drive anymore when it's connected via FireWire.
>
> The drive works just fine when connected via the USB interface.

I have a Pioneer DVR-112D in a Firewire 400 and USB 2.0 "Hot Buttered"
enclosure (which has an Oxford chipset, but I don't recall which part
number) and I have the same problem. It works on USB, doesn't work on
Firewire (while booted into Snow Leopard).

System Profiler shows it as a Firewire storage device, but it can't even
read a CD or DVD, let alone burn anything (doesn't show up in Disc
Burning list in System Profiler, nor in Toast). I don't have Dragon Burn
so can't compare notes on that one.

Same drive works fine with Leopard via Firewire. Same _cable_ works fine
with a Firewire hard drive on Snow Leopard (thus Firewire 400 itself is
fine).

Only unresolved question is whether it is something to do with the
specific Oxford chipset in my enclosure, or its firmware version. I
don't have any other FW400/USB2 enclosures - the rest are
FW800/400/USB2/SATA or FW800/USB2, and they will have a different Oxford
chipset.

> Dragon Burn can access the drive just fine via FireWire. That might be a
> suitable workaround as long as I never wanted to burn a disk with iTunes
> or iPhoto.
>
> I've run the traditional troubleshooting steps: Repaired Permissions,
> Safe Mode, Guest account. FireWire persists in being a no-go.
>
> There are a few threads in Apples support forum regarding this same
> problem.
>
> Here's the good part. I finally called Apple Tech Support. The
> representative claimed that FireWire 400 support has ended with Snow
> Leopard, and this problem will never be fixed. He could not explain to
> me why my FireWire Time machine drive still works like a champ.

I call bullshit on that one. The tech support guy didn't know the answer
so they made one up.

As noted above, Firewire 400 is working fine for me with Snow Leopard,
at least with a hard drive.

> He threw the ball back in LaCie's court. All I know id the enclosure has
> LaCie's latest firmware for that model.

Something seems to be broken with Snow Leopard recognising Firewire
removable storage devices (at least optical drives), or perhaps specific
Firewire chipsets.

I also have a Firewire Zip drive but haven't tried it yet.

--
David Empson
dempson.RemoveThis@actrix.gen.nz

In article <Z1kom.1240$tl3.1160@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>,
Wes Groleau <groleau+news@freeshell.org> wrote:

> Chris Schram wrote:
> > Here's the good part. I finally called Apple Tech Support. The
> > representative claimed that FireWire 400 support has ended with Snow
> > Leopard, and this problem will never be fixed. He could not explain to
>
> "Your name again is ....?"
>
> "Thank you. Shall I call back and ask whoever answers why you are lying
> to me?"

I wonder what kind of response you'd get... That would be a good call to
record. : )

--
Send responses to the relevant news group rather than email to me.
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my very hungry SPAM
filter. Due to Google's refusal to prevent spammers from posting
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Groups. Use a real news client if you want me to see your posts.

JR

David Empson <dempson DeleteThis @actrix.gen.nz> wrote:

> Chris Schram <schram DeleteThis @webenet.net> wrote:
>
> > Yesterday I installed Snow Leopard from an external Pioneer DVR-116D
> > within in an older LaCie FireWire 400/USB enclosure. The install went
> > just fine except...
> >
> > Apple's applications (iTunes, Disk Utility, Finder) can't burn to that
> > drive anymore when it's connected via FireWire.
> >
> > The drive works just fine when connected via the USB interface.
>
> I have a Pioneer DVR-112D in a Firewire 400 and USB 2.0 "Hot Buttered"
> enclosure (which has an Oxford chipset, but I don't recall which part
> number) and I have the same problem. It works on USB, doesn't work on
> Firewire (while booted into Snow Leopard).
>
> System Profiler shows it as a Firewire storage device, but it can't even
> read a CD or DVD, let alone burn anything (doesn't show up in Disc
> Burning list in System Profiler, nor in Toast). I don't have Dragon Burn
> so can't compare notes on that one.
>
> Same drive works fine with Leopard via Firewire. Same _cable_ works fine
> with a Firewire hard drive on Snow Leopard (thus Firewire 400 itself is
> fine).
>
> Only unresolved question is whether it is something to do with the
> specific Oxford chipset in my enclosure, or its firmware version. I
> don't have any other FW400/USB2 enclosures - the rest are
> FW800/400/USB2/SATA or FW800/USB2, and they will have a different Oxford
> chipset.

> Something seems to be broken with Snow Leopard recognising Firewire
> removable storage devices (at least optical drives), or perhaps specific
> Firewire chipsets.

My Pioneer DVR-111, firmware 1.29 with Oxford chipset, details

OXFORD IDE Device Unit:
Unit Software Version: 0x10483
Unit Spec ID: 0x609E
lets me play a DVD. I haven't tried a CD, but I'm sure that will work. I
also have not tried burning a disk, so am not sure about that.

Just one data point to indicate that it is probably a matter of the
chipset and its firmware.
Firmware Revision: 0x38
Product Revision Level: 1.29
Sub-units:

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David wrote:
"System Profiler shows it as a Firewire storage device, but
it can't even read a CD or DVD, let alone burn anything
(doesn't show up in Disc Burning list in System Profiler,
nor in Toast). I don't have Dragon Burn so can't compare
notes on that one."

I had a "firewire anomaly" with Snow Leopard and Toast v.7
when connected to a 2.5" Firewire external drive.

Snow Leopard and Toast work fine when I burn an audio CD
from files on my internal (white iMac) hard drive.

But when I plug in my external firewire drive, and when I
try to burn the CD from files on that drive, Toast (or the
System) tosses an error, and won't do the burn.

The odd thing is that the Finder can read/write to this
drive without problems.

But Toast can't work with the exact same files.

I'm going to _guess_ that the firewire 400 problems being
reported will eventually be addressed in a future software
update. SOMEwhere, during SL development, SOMEthing got
overlooked....