G4 Hard Drive Window Lies

In article (Dans l'article) <4047A295.35F49F8F.TakeThisOut@arkansas.net>, Larry
<combsl.TakeThisOut@arkansas.net> wrote (écrivait) :

> Have a G4 with OSX 10.2 and the hard drive window says that I only have
> 122MB remaining on the disk. I totaled everything showing in the drive
> window and only find about 4.6 GB of a 10GB Disk. Whats up here?

All of unix files are hidden from finder view ...

Thierry

Larry <combsl.DeleteThis@arkansas.net> writes:
>
> Have a G4 with OSX 10.2 and the hard drive window says that I only
> have 122MB remaining on the disk. I totaled everything showing in
> the drive window and only find about 4.6 GB of a 10GB Disk. Whats up
> here?

Two things:

1: Hidden files. There are a lot of them. The entire UNIX half of
the operating system is not normally visible from the Finder. You
can see them all from Terminal (if you're comfortable with UNIX
command lines.) On my system, the following root-level
files/directories are hidden from the Finder:

16 K - .DS_Store
0 b - .Trashes
4 K - hidden
384 K - .hotfiles.btree
0 b - .vol
0 b - Cleanup At Startup
0 b - Desktop
336 K - Desktop DB
2.2 M - Desktop DF
92 K - Desktop Folder
1.5 K - Network
0 b - Temporary Items
37 M - TheFindByContentFolder
8 K - TheVolumeSettingsFolder
0 b - Trash
1.5 K - automount
3 M - bin
0 b - cores
4 K - etc
4 K - mach
556 K - mach.sym
3.6 M - mach_kernel
435 M - private
1.8 M - sbin
4 K - tmp
732 M - usr
4 K - var

Added together, this adds up to almost 1.2GB

This doesn't count stuff in the /dev and /Volumes directories.
since these indirectly include entire file systems (e.g. your hard
drive device, and any other mounted volumes), it is difficult to
measure their size. (The "du" command produces multi-gigabyte
results, but it's all double-counting stuff that's counted
elsewhere.)

2: Trash. Did you empty the trash? Files in there consume space, but
you may not have counted them in your 4.6G. Also note that if you
have more than one user, each one has his own trash can.

3: .DS_Store files. These are created by the Finder in every folder
you open to track things like window sizes and icon positions.
Individually, they're not large, but the cumulative size can be
large.

4: Drive size. The drive isn't as big as you might think. A
so-called 10G disk has 10,000,000,000 bytes of unformatted
capacity. Expressed in terms of powers-of-two (the way most
software does), this is about 9.3GB.

5: Slack space. File sizes are all padded to a disk block size. For
instance, on my system, a 1-byte file will take up 4K of disk.
This will be noticeable for small files and for application
packages (where the application is actually a directory tree full
of small files.) When you count the size of a file in the Finder,
the "on disk" count will include slack, while the byte-count will
not.

For example, when I do a get-info on the QuickTime player app, I
see "11.5 MB on disk (9,345,079 bytes)". If I add up the sizes of
all the files in the package, I'll get the 9,345,079, but if these
are all padded out to their disk-block sizes, I'll get the 11.5M
figure. (The UNIX du command reports 11792K, or 11.5M)

If you totaled up the file sizes using the byte-count instead of
the on-disk count, then you didn't count all the slack space.
This space is very significant. (Note that it was almost 2.6M, or
almost 23% of the package's on-disk size!)

So.....

9.3 G (actual drive size)
- 4.6 G (files)
- 1.2 G (hidden root-level stuff)
- 122 M (reported free space)
-------
3.3 G discrepancy

I will agree that a 3.3 G discrepancy is way too large to be simply
overhead from formatting and .DS_Store files. I think it could
easily be slack space and stuff in your trashes, however.

-- David

shamino.DeleteThis@techie.com (David C.) writes:
>
> Two things:
>
> 1: ...
> 2: ...
> 3: ...
> 4: ...
> 5: ...

.... for sufficiently large values of two

-- David

On Thu, 4 Mar 2004 16:42:16 -0500, Larry wrote
(in article <4047A295.35F49F8F RemoveThis @arkansas.net>):

> Have a G4 with OSX 10.2 and the hard drive window says that I only have
> 122MB remaining on the disk. I totaled everything showing in the drive
> window and only find about 4.6 GB of a 10GB Disk. Whats up here?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Larry Combs
>

1 10 GB is really 9.something small GB

2 have you restarted and had a look at how much space you have? OS X's
virtual memory can eat 2-3 GB without blinking.

3 have you got stuff in the Trash?

4 did you send a large print job out, and did it actually print? Certain
types of files, particularly PDFs and EPSes, generate Very Large Print Files,
upwards of a gig in many cases. If the print file isn't deleted after
printing, or if it never gets printed, it sits there and eats space.

So... you have accounted for 4.6 GB, which would be about half the disk space
on a 10 GB (nominal) drive. Throw in 2 GB more for VM, that's 6.6 GB. Another
1 GB for print files, that's 7.6. One more for stuff in Trash, that's 8.6.
Which puts you at having a few hundred meg free, max. And I haven't addressed
the problem of invisible files; every folder you've accessed from the Finder
has an invisible .DS_Store file, which can grow to several hundred meg,
depending on how many files you have in that folder, how they're arranged,
and what size and kind they are. Even if your Trash is empty and you don't
have any old print files hanging around, invisible files alone could eat 2 GB
or more...

Let me put it this way: a total of 10 GB is right at the lower edge of
usefulness, so far as OS X is concerned. It can be used, but you have to be
careful.

--
We are Microsoft of Borg. You will be assimilated. Stability is irrelevant.
Where _you_ want to go to today is irrelevant. We will add your currency to
our own. Bend over right now. Resistance is futile.

"David C." wrote:

> Larry <combsl RemoveThis @arkansas.net> writes:
> >
> > Have a G4 with OSX 10.2 and the hard drive window says that I only
> > have 122MB remaining on the disk. I totaled everything showing in
> > the drive window and only find about 4.6 GB of a 10GB Disk. Whats up
> > here?
>
> Two things:
>
> 1: Hidden files. There are a lot of them. The entire UNIX half of
> the operating system is not normally visible from the Finder. You
> can see them all from Terminal (if you're comfortable with UNIX
> command lines.) On my system, the following root-level
> files/directories are hidden from the Finder:
>
> 16 K - .DS_Store
> 0 b - .Trashes
> 4 K - hidden
> 384 K - .hotfiles.btree
> 0 b - .vol
> 0 b - Cleanup At Startup
> 0 b - Desktop
> 336 K - Desktop DB
> 2.2 M - Desktop DF
> 92 K - Desktop Folder
> 1.5 K - Network
> 0 b - Temporary Items
> 37 M - TheFindByContentFolder
> 8 K - TheVolumeSettingsFolder
> 0 b - Trash
> 1.5 K - automount
> 3 M - bin
> 0 b - cores
> 4 K - etc
> 4 K - mach
> 556 K - mach.sym
> 3.6 M - mach_kernel
> 435 M - private
> 1.8 M - sbin
> 4 K - tmp
> 732 M - usr
> 4 K - var
>
> Added together, this adds up to almost 1.2GB
>
> This doesn't count stuff in the /dev and /Volumes directories.
> since these indirectly include entire file systems (e.g. your hard
> drive device, and any other mounted volumes), it is difficult to
> measure their size. (The "du" command produces multi-gigabyte
> results, but it's all double-counting stuff that's counted
> elsewhere.)
>
> 2: Trash. Did you empty the trash? Files in there consume space, but
> you may not have counted them in your 4.6G. Also note that if you
> have more than one user, each one has his own trash can.
>
> 3: .DS_Store files. These are created by the Finder in every folder
> you open to track things like window sizes and icon positions.
> Individually, they're not large, but the cumulative size can be
> large.
>
> 4: Drive size. The drive isn't as big as you might think. A
> so-called 10G disk has 10,000,000,000 bytes of unformatted
> capacity. Expressed in terms of powers-of-two (the way most
> software does), this is about 9.3GB.
>
> 5: Slack space. File sizes are all padded to a disk block size. For
> instance, on my system, a 1-byte file will take up 4K of disk.
> This will be noticeable for small files and for application
> packages (where the application is actually a directory tree full
> of small files.) When you count the size of a file in the Finder,
> the "on disk" count will include slack, while the byte-count will
> not.
>
> For example, when I do a get-info on the QuickTime player app, I
> see "11.5 MB on disk (9,345,079 bytes)". If I add up the sizes of
> all the files in the package, I'll get the 9,345,079, but if these
> are all padded out to their disk-block sizes, I'll get the 11.5M
> figure. (The UNIX du command reports 11792K, or 11.5M)
>
> If you totaled up the file sizes using the byte-count instead of
> the on-disk count, then you didn't count all the slack space.
> This space is very significant. (Note that it was almost 2.6M, or
> almost 23% of the package's on-disk size!)
>
> So.....
>
> 9.3 G (actual drive size)
> - 4.6 G (files)
> - 1.2 G (hidden root-level stuff)
> - 122 M (reported free space)
> -------
> 3.3 G discrepancy
>
> I will agree that a 3.3 G discrepancy is way too large to be simply
> overhead from formatting and .DS_Store files. I think it could
> easily be slack space and stuff in your trashes, however.
>
> -- David

David--

Thanks for the response. I do not have anything in the trash. I do not
find a virtual memory control on OSX.

Tis just a puzzle to me.

Thanks!

Larry

Snipped

Charles Dyer wrote:

> 2 have you restarted and had a look at how much space you have? OS X's
> virtual memory can eat 2-3 GB without blinking.
>
> 3 have you got stuff in the Trash?
>
> 4 did you send a large print job out, and did it actually print? Certain
> types of files, particularly PDFs and EPSes, generate Very Large Print Files,
> upwards of a gig in many cases. If the print file isn't deleted after
> printing, or if it never gets printed, it sits there and eats space.
>
> Let me put it this way: a total of 10 GB is right at the lower edge of
> usefulness, so far as OS X is concerned. It can be used, but you have to be
> careful.
>
> --
> We are Microsoft of Borg. You will be assimilated. Stability is irrelevant.
> Where _you_ want to go to today is irrelevant. We will add your currency to
> our own. Bend over right now. Resistance is futile.

Charles--
Thanks for the response.

I restart often. I do not have anything in the trash or any pending print files.
I do not find a virtual memory control for OSX.

Tis just a puzzle to me.

Thanks!

Larry

On Mon, 8 Mar 2004 15:55:58 -0500, Larry wrote
(in article <404CDDDC.5FBE5862.RemoveThis@arkansas.net>):

> Snipped
>
> Charles Dyer wrote:
>
>> 2 have you restarted and had a look at how much space you have? OS X's
>> virtual memory can eat 2-3 GB without blinking.
>>
>> 3 have you got stuff in the Trash?
>>
>> 4 did you send a large print job out, and did it actually print? Certain
>> types of files, particularly PDFs and EPSes, generate Very Large Print
>> Files,
>> upwards of a gig in many cases. If the print file isn't deleted after
>> printing, or if it never gets printed, it sits there and eats space.
>>
>> Let me put it this way: a total of 10 GB is right at the lower edge of
>> usefulness, so far as OS X is concerned. It can be used, but you have to be
>> careful.
>>
>> --
>> We are Microsoft of Borg. You will be assimilated. Stability is irrelevant.
>> Where _you_ want to go to today is irrelevant. We will add your currency to
>> our own. Bend over right now. Resistance is futile.
>
> Charles--
> Thanks for the response.
>
> I restart often. I do not have anything in the trash or any pending print
> files.
> I do not find a virtual memory control for OSX.

There isn't one. VM is on, full time. It can't be turned off.

If you restart your Mac and suddenly you have lots more disk space, you had a
lot of VM files eating your space. If you restart and _don't_ have a lot more
disk space, you probably have a _lot_ of invisible files.

Either way, I'd put _serious_ thought into getting additional disk space.
_Today_. As in drop everything and go down to CompUSA and buy a 40 GB disk.
Now. 80 GB would be better. You have a G4, it's _easy_ to install a new
drive. Just make sure the new drive is set 'slave', power down the Mac, open
it up, detach the drive cables, unscrew the drive sled from the floor of the
system, screw in the new drive in the top of the sled, attach cables to both
drives, and power up. You have a new drive. Format it with Drive Utility,
then Carbon Copy Clone your old drive to the new one, and restart with your
new drive as startup. You should be done in under an hour.

Note: do _not_ partition a damn thing. Just format the new drive as one big
partition.

>
> Tis just a puzzle to me.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Larry
>



--
We are Microsoft of Borg. You will be assimilated. Stability is irrelevant.
Where _you_ want to go to today is irrelevant. We will add your currency to
our own. Bend over right now. Resistance is futile.