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External
Since: Nov 07, 2007
Posts: 16
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(Msg. 31) Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 8:16 am
Post subject: Re: [ANN] MacSOUP 2.8.2 available [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: alt>usenet>offline-reader, others (more info?)
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In article <1i7do8l.1y45hxzjhqpceN DeleteThis @gnksa.org>,
js DeleteThis @xs4all.nl (Jeroen Scheerder) wrote:
> Doc O'Leary <droleary.usenet DeleteThis @4q2007.subsume.com> wrote:
>
> > I'm not about to jump through hoops just for another "new" client when
> > it's obvious that they can't even get the setup right.
>
> MacSOUP is hardly new. It's been around for ages.
If only there were some way to indicate I meant it would be new to me as
a regular client. I know, let me go back in time and put quotes around
my use of the word new. Done. Hope that makes things clear. Please go
back in your timeline and adjust your response to maintain consistency.
> And so is its
> interface. It might turn out differently if it would have been created
> yesterday, but it wasn't, and as software goes things get entrenched.
Realize that I didn't take any serious issue with the look of MacSOUP.
While it is true that Classic ports often don't fit with the Mac OS X,
my main complaint was that the developer demonstrated muddled thinking
by putting center stage the configuration of things they acknowledge
MacSOUP does poorly and, in fact, have nothing to do with reading Usenet.
> Not that I recall finding MacSOUP's initial setup counterintuitive,
> involved, or hard in any other way.
I never said it was hard or in any way beyond my abilities. I said it
was evidence that the developer had no interest in actually developing a
user friendly Mac app. It creates a barrier to entry that is completely
unnecessary, and given the alternatives it is often much easier to move
on to trying the next Usenet client.
> But that's been well over a decade
> ago, and maybe things were different back then and people didn't get
> upset when a program asked about a username, SMTP server and NNTP server
> at first run.
You'd think a decade would be enough time to get things done right.
You'd think it would eventually dawn on the developer that when "e-mail
capabilities are somewhat rudimentary" it might not make a whole lot of
sense to make that the *first* thing you're prompted to configure.
Maybe it's time for you to look at MacSOUP with a fresh set of eyes with
the idea that it can be made even better rather than accepting what has
become entrenched.
--
My personal UDP list: 127.0.0.1, 4ax.com, buzzardnews.com, googlegroups.com,
heapnode.com, localhost, ntli.net, teranews.com, vif.com, x-privat.org |
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External
Since: Nov 07, 2007
Posts: 16
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(Msg. 32) Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 8:25 am
Post subject: Re: [ANN] MacSOUP 2.8.2 available [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <1i7d6ku.1npyzprkv8y3iN%burt@mindstorm-inc.com>,
burt.RemoveThis@mindstorm-inc.com (Burt Johnson) wrote:
> You don't like it or want to use it. So what? use whatever tickles your
> fancy. I don't see why you are making such a big deal about it.
I'm not making a big deal out of it, but rather I'm simply pointing out
things about MacSOUP that might be off-putting. I was responding to
someone who wondered aloud why more people don't use it. If you want to
"So what?" anyone, that's the person deserving your distain. Here, let
me help you out and go back to see who it was. It appears it was Burt
Johnson. Funny.
--
My personal UDP list: 127.0.0.1, 4ax.com, buzzardnews.com, googlegroups.com,
heapnode.com, localhost, ntli.net, teranews.com, vif.com, x-privat.org |
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External
Since: Nov 08, 2004
Posts: 995
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(Msg. 33) Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 9:29 am
Post subject: Re: [ANN] MacSOUP 2.8.2 available [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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The Wolf <elvisp RemoveThis @compuserve.com> wrote:
> On 11/7/07 1:03 AM, in article
> 1i76o5h.1wythqz1weo2p2N%burt@mindstorm-inc.com, "Burt Johnson"
> <burt RemoveThis @mindstorm-inc.com> wrote:
>
> > Stefan Haller <stk RemoveThis @snafu.de> wrote:
> >
> >> The 2.8.2 version of MacSOUP is available. It is now compatible with
> >> Leopard.
> >>
> >> This is a bugfix release, it fixes the following problems:
> >>
> >> - Fixed problems when running under Leopard (Mac OS X 10.5):
> >> - Very low data rates when connecting to the server
> >> - Bogus error message when clicking in the All Groups or New Groups
> >> window
> >> - Fixed possible crash with the address completion window.
> >>
> >>
> >> Available from:
> >>
> >> <http://home.snafu.de/stk/macsoup/>
> >
> > Thanks for the quick work! I have no idea why more people don't use
> > MacSoup. I have been a loving user of it since 1.0. 
>
> I stopped using it because there is no spell check and the author tells me
> there can't be.
So use Excalibur.
--
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate. |
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External
Since: Apr 13, 2005
Posts: 28
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(Msg. 34) Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 12:20 pm
Post subject: Re: [ANN] MacSOUP 2.8.2 available [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Paul Fuchs <paulfuchs@porkain'tkosher.oink> wrote:
> My only complaint is that there is a very short limit on signatures. I
> complained to Stefan about it recently, but he refuses to change it
> because he regards them as a waste of band width. I regard this as
> ridiculous in an age of youtube, but Stefan is a man of fixed opinions.
Hooray for Stefan! It's not just Stefan's opinion, by the way.
Daniele |
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External
Since: Jan 20, 2005
Posts: 115
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(Msg. 35) Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 12:27 pm
Post subject: Re: [ANN] MacSOUP 2.8.2 available [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Paul Fuchs <paulfuchs@porkain'tkosher.oink> wrote:
> My only complaint is that there is a very short limit on signatures. I
> complained to Stefan about it recently, but he refuses to change it
> because he regards them as a waste of band width. I regard this as
> ridiculous in an age of youtube, but Stefan is a man of fixed opinions.
AIUI MacSOUP signatures are RFC complient. I see no reason why this
should be changed. I don't want to read people's biography with every
message they post - that's what web sites are for.
Jim
--
Find me at http://www.ursaminorbeta.co.uk |
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External
Since: Nov 02, 2003
Posts: 129
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(Msg. 36) Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 5:40 pm
Post subject: Re: [ANN] MacSOUP 2.8.2 available [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Doc O'Leary <droleary.usenet.TakeThisOut@4q2007.subsume.com> wrote:
> You'd think a decade would be enough time to get things done right.
> You'd think it would eventually dawn on the developer that when "e-mail
> capabilities are somewhat rudimentary" it might not make a whole lot of
> sense to make that the *first* thing you're prompted to configure.
So it'd be okay if it asked those questions second?
I find your reasoning extremely.... strange. But if you really are so
thrown by a simple setup sequence that seems to you to be out of
sequence, that you then refuse to try what is a uniquely capable news
client, that's your privilege. But strange.
--
Peter |
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External
Since: Nov 02, 2003
Posts: 129
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(Msg. 37) Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 5:40 pm
Post subject: Re: [ANN] MacSOUP 2.8.2 available [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Paul Fuchs <paulfuchs@porkain'tkosher.oink> wrote:
> My only complaint is that there is a very short limit on signatures. I
> complained to Stefan about it recently, but he refuses to change it
> because he regards them as a waste of band width. I regard this as
> ridiculous in an age of youtube, but Stefan is a man of fixed opinions.
More like a man of good sense. Sounds to me like an excellent reason to
continue using MacSOUP.
--
Peter |
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External
Since: Jan 15, 2004
Posts: 281
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(Msg. 38) Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 7:10 pm
Post subject: Re: [ANN] MacSOUP 2.8.2 available [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Doc O'Leary <droleary.usenet.TakeThisOut@4q2007.subsume.com> wrote:
> In article <1i7d6ku.1npyzprkv8y3iN%burt@mindstorm-inc.com>,
> burt.TakeThisOut@mindstorm-inc.com (Burt Johnson) wrote:
>
> > You don't like it or want to use it. So what? use whatever tickles your
> > fancy. I don't see why you are making such a big deal about it.
>
> I'm not making a big deal out of it, but rather I'm simply pointing out
> things about MacSOUP that might be off-putting. I was responding to
> someone who wondered aloud why more people don't use it. If you want to
> "So what?" anyone, that's the person deserving your distain. Here, let
> me help you out and go back to see who it was. It appears it was Burt
> Johnson. Funny.
Yes, it was, and your first response was completely appropriate. It is
the turning of this into a monster thread that seems out of whack to me.
You seem rather emotionally involved with hating the setup for some
reason...?
There is software that I have tried and not liked. When it get discussed
here, I make a single post (or maybe two, if someone asks for more
details) stating why I don't use it. I then let the thread evolve for
those that DO like it, to say why, and to try and convince others to
come join the party.
Your reasons for not liking MacSoup were made clear up front. The rest
of us don't agree. Rather than making so much effort to stomp on
Stefan's work, why not let others just discuss why it is good (with your
contrary points made), so others will come and join the fun? If they
also turn off to hate the setup so terribly, you can say "I told you
so," but I see no valid reason for you to try so fervently to convince
them to not even try.
--
- Burt Johnson
MindStorm, Inc.
http://www.mindstorm-inc.com/software.html |
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External
Since: Apr 05, 2006
Posts: 117
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(Msg. 39) Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 3:22 am
Post subject: Re: [ANN] MacSOUP 2.8.2 available [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On 2007-11-12, Stefan Haller <stk.RemoveThis@snafu.de> wrote:
>
> If I ever get around to writing a successor of MacSOUP, it will behave
> more reasonable with regard to this and many other user interface
> oddities; however, I won't spend time to do any such changes to the old
> MacSOUP codebase.
Can I just reiterate that I would be very happy to pay for a new version of
MacSOUP that was fully Cocoa-ised (given that Carbon seems to be being
pushed gently out of the door).
If you set the price at, say, 30UKP I'd be happy to pay half now, half when
finished. Just a thought.
Jim
--
http://www.ursaMinorBeta.co.uk
ARDSLIGNISH (adj.)
Adjective which describes the behaviour of Sellotape when you are tired. |
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External
Since: Feb 06, 2007
Posts: 17
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(Msg. 40) Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 3:57 am
Post subject: Re: [ANN] MacSOUP 2.8.2 available [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Jim <jim DeleteThis @magrathea.plus.com> wrote:
> On 2007-11-12, Stefan Haller <stk DeleteThis @snafu.de> wrote:
> >
> > If I ever get around to writing a successor of MacSOUP, it will behave
> > more reasonable with regard to this and many other user interface
> > oddities; however, I won't spend time to do any such changes to the old
> > MacSOUP codebase.
>
> Can I just reiterate that I would be very happy to pay for a new version of
> MacSOUP that was fully Cocoa-ised (given that Carbon seems to be being
> pushed gently out of the door).
>
> If you set the price at, say, 30UKP I'd be happy to pay half now, half when
> finished. Just a thought.
>
> Jim
Same here. I'd be more than happy to help with development costs.
--
Am I the only Gareth Slee?
http://www.garethslee.com |
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External
Since: Jun 30, 2003
Posts: 49
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(Msg. 41) Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 4:12 am
Post subject: Re: [ANN] MacSOUP 2.8.2 available [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Paul Fuchs <paulfuchs@porkain'tkosher.oink> wrote:
> My only complaint is that there is a very short limit on signatures. I
> complained to Stefan about it recently, but he refuses to change it
> because he regards them as a waste of band width. I regard this as
> ridiculous in an age of youtube, but Stefan is a man of fixed opinions.
Paul, this is nonsense. Wasted bandwidth is not an issue nowadays, and
I said so quite clearly in my email reply to your complaint. Just to
set things straight, this is what I replied to Paul:
: Well, I disagree; the limit is not because of wasted bandwidth, but
: because it's annoying to have to look at huge signatures, with poems
: and witty quotes and whatnot. This has not changed from 8 years ago.
:
: However, it may not have to be a strict requirement but rather only a
: strong warning, allowing you to use longer signatures if you really
: feel you must. I might change this some day (no promises though).
--
Stefan Haller
Berlin, Germany
http://home.snafu.de/stk/ |
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External
Since: Feb 06, 2007
Posts: 17
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(Msg. 42) Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 4:12 am
Post subject: Re: [ANN] MacSOUP 2.8.2 available [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Stefan Haller <stk DeleteThis @snafu.de> wrote:
> Paul Fuchs <paulfuchs@porkain'tkosher.oink> wrote:
>
> > My only complaint is that there is a very short limit on signatures. I
> > complained to Stefan about it recently, but he refuses to change it
> > because he regards them as a waste of band width. I regard this as
> > ridiculous in an age of youtube, but Stefan is a man of fixed opinions.
>
> Paul, this is nonsense. Wasted bandwidth is not an issue nowadays, and
> I said so quite clearly in my email reply to your complaint. Just to
> set things straight, this is what I replied to Paul:
>
> : Well, I disagree; the limit is not because of wasted bandwidth, but
> : because it's annoying to have to look at huge signatures, with poems
> : and witty quotes and whatnot. This has not changed from 8 years ago.
> :
> : However, it may not have to be a strict requirement but rather only a
> : strong warning, allowing you to use longer signatures if you really
> : feel you must. I might change this some day (no promises though).
Stefan, please don't allow long signatures. There's nothing that annoys
me more than lines and lines of stuff in signatures.
Pretty please!!!
--
Am I the only Gareth Slee?
http://www.garethslee.com |
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External
Since: Jun 17, 2006
Posts: 182
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(Msg. 43) Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:11 am
Post subject: Re: [ANN] MacSOUP 2.8.2 available [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Stefan Haller <stk.TakeThisOut@snafu.de> wrote:
> Paul Fuchs <paulfuchs@porkain'tkosher.oink> wrote:
>
> > My only complaint is that there is a very short limit on signatures. I
> > complained to Stefan about it recently, but he refuses to change it
> > because he regards them as a waste of band width. I regard this as
> > ridiculous in an age of youtube, but Stefan is a man of fixed opinions.
>
> Paul, this is nonsense. Wasted bandwidth is not an issue nowadays, and
> I said so quite clearly in my email reply to your complaint. Just to
> set things straight, this is what I replied to Paul:
>
> : Well, I disagree; the limit is not because of wasted bandwidth, but
> : because it's annoying to have to look at huge signatures, with poems
> : and witty quotes and whatnot. This has not changed from 8 years ago.
> :
> : However, it may not have to be a strict requirement but rather only a
> : strong warning, allowing you to use longer signatures if you really
> : feel you must. I might change this some day (no promises though).
Well, of course you are right Stefan (as I wipe the egg of my face.)
Should have rechecked your message in my archives. My only excuse is
that I am old and my memory is failing. Looks like the decision is
unanimous against my opinion regarding length of signatures.
--
Never believe anything until it's officially denied. |
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External
Since: Sep 05, 2006
Posts: 20
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(Msg. 44) Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:07 pm
Post subject: Re: [ANN] MacSOUP 2.8.2 available [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Gareth Slee <gax.slee.DeleteThis@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> Jim <jim.DeleteThis@magrathea.plus.com> wrote:
>
> > On 2007-11-12, Stefan Haller <stk.DeleteThis@snafu.de> wrote:
> > >
> > > If I ever get around to writing a successor of MacSOUP, it will behave
> > > more reasonable with regard to this and many other user interface
> > > oddities; however, I won't spend time to do any such changes to the old
> > > MacSOUP codebase.
> >
> > Can I just reiterate that I would be very happy to pay for a new version of
> > MacSOUP that was fully Cocoa-ised (given that Carbon seems to be being
> > pushed gently out of the door).
> >
> > If you set the price at, say, 30UKP I'd be happy to pay half now, half when
> > finished. Just a thought.
> >
> > Jim
>
>
> Same here. I'd be more than happy to help with development costs.
Count me in.
--
Andy Templeman <http://www.templeman.org.uk/> |
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External
Since: Nov 07, 2005
Posts: 131
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(Msg. 45) Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:27 pm
Post subject: Re: [ANN] MacSOUP 2.8.2 available [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Stefan Haller <stk.TakeThisOut@snafu.de> wrote:
> If I ever get around to writing a successor of MacSOUP, it will behave
> more reasonable with regard to this and many other user interface
> oddities; however, I won't spend time to do any such changes to the old
> MacSOUP codebase.
What would you call a successor? SOUP is obsolete right?
--
Mvh./Regards, Niels Jørgen Kruse, Vanløse, Denmark |
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