[News] [Linux] Microsoft's Linux Obsession, Apple Anvy

John Locke wrote:

> They're [MS] getting smarter. They've fianlly figured out
> that you don't need 75,000 people, a bunch of over paid execs, 500
> lawyers and six years to produce an operating system.

Well, you do if you're going to create and sell an OS anyone actually wants
to use.

On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 23:22:16 -0500, DFS wrote:

> John Locke wrote:
>
>> They're [MS] getting smarter. They've fianlly figured out that you
>> don't need 75,000 people, a bunch of over paid execs, 500 lawyers and
>> six years to produce an operating system.
>
> Well, you do if you're going to create and sell an OS anyone actually
> wants to use.

And this explains the long line-ups of people demanding Vista from the
stores. Oh, wait... there are no such line-ups, because while MS may
have pushed 40 million licenses to the vendors, the customers, on the
whole, are demanding XP, Linux and other non-Vista options.

Funny that.

Kelsey Bjarnason wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 23:22:16 -0500, DFS wrote:
>
>> John Locke wrote:
>>
>>> They're [MS] getting smarter. They've fianlly figured out that you
>>> don't need 75,000 people, a bunch of over paid execs, 500 lawyers
>>> and six years to produce an operating system.
>>
>> Well, you do if you're going to create and sell an OS anyone actually
>> wants to use.
>
> And this explains the long line-ups of people demanding Vista from the
> stores. Oh, wait... there are no such line-ups, because while MS may
> have pushed 40 million licenses to the vendors, the customers, on the
> whole, are demanding XP, Linux and other non-Vista options.
>
> Funny that.

What, funny that you think that, or funny that you posted it?

Either way, it's not true on the whole or on the half. Few people are
demanding XP when they can get Vista, and fewer still are demanding Linux
when they can get Windows.

And you and I and everyone who's interested knows it.

After takin' a swig o' grog, DFS belched out this bit o' wisdom:

> Kelsey Bjarnason wrote:
>
> Either way, it's not true on the whole or on the half. Few people are
> demanding XP when they can get Vista, and fewer still are demanding Linux
> when they can get Windows.
>
> And you and I and everyone who's interested knows it.

You're not talking about me. I know only one person who's used Vista.

I know far more who use Linux. And even more than that who use XP.

And I know one person who spent a lot of time and money to replace the
screen on his laptop, rather than get a new laptop with Vista on it.

Ultimately, of course, the hardware will catch up to Vista, and Vista
will catch up to the hardware, and the software makers will catch up to
Vista.

But it has put a real dent in Microsoft's reputation, even among
consumers.

--
Vista? No thanks, I'll wait for SP1.

Linonut wrote:
> After takin' a swig o' grog, DFS belched out this bit o' wisdom:
>
>> Kelsey Bjarnason wrote:
>>
>> Either way, it's not true on the whole or on the half. Few people
>> are demanding XP when they can get Vista, and fewer still are
>> demanding Linux when they can get Windows.
>>
>> And you and I and everyone who's interested knows it.
>
> You're not talking about me. I know only one person who's used Vista.
>
> I know far more who use Linux. And even more than that who use XP.

That's use, that's not purchase/demand.

* people are buying Vista machines now.
* some are buying XP in lieu of Vista (not many 'cause it's not easy to find
XP systems any more)
* Linux systems? Well, practically nobody is buying Linux systems.



> And I know one person who spent a lot of time and money to replace the
> screen on his laptop, rather than get a new laptop with Vista on it.
>
> Ultimately, of course, the hardware will catch up to Vista, and Vista
> will catch up to the hardware, and the software makers will catch up
> to Vista.
>
> But it has put a real dent in Microsoft's reputation, even among
> consumers.

Partly offset by the bump in their reputation provided by Office 2007, which
has been very well-received. And their "do the right thing" 3-year warranty
extension and reimbursement for XBox 360.

Linonut <linonut.TakeThisOut@bellsouth.net> writes:

> After takin' a swig o' grog, DFS belched out this bit o' wisdom:
>
>> Kelsey Bjarnason wrote:
>>
>> Either way, it's not true on the whole or on the half. Few people are
>> demanding XP when they can get Vista, and fewer still are demanding Linux
>> when they can get Windows.
>>
>> And you and I and everyone who's interested knows it.
>
> You're not talking about me. I know only one person who's used Vista.
>
> I know far more who use Linux. And even more than that who use XP.

Sounds like good advocacy. Until you notice Linonut only knows one
person who uses Vista. So "far more who use Linux" could be about 2.

> And I know one person who spent a lot of time and money to replace the
> screen on his laptop, rather than get a new laptop with Vista on it.

Yeah. Sure.

>
> Ultimately, of course, the hardware will catch up to Vista, and Vista
> will catch up to the hardware, and the software makers will catch up to
> Vista.
>
> But it has put a real dent in Microsoft's reputation, even among
> consumers.

No one really cares. There is no viable alternative.

Kelsey Bjarnason wrote:
> [snips]
>
> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 21:44:37 -0500, DFS wrote:
>
>> Either way, it's not true on the whole or on the half. Few people
>> are demanding XP when they can get Vista
>
> Ah. That explains:
>
> 1) The run on system purchases just prior to Vista actually hitting
> the shelf - when you were assured of actually getting something
> _other_ than Vista
>
> 2) Dell's bringing back XP *after* switching almost their entire
> lineup of Windows offerings to Vista
>
> 3) Comments like the following (from Dell):
>
> "We heard you loud and clear on bringing the Windows XP option back
> to our Dell consumer PC offerings," Dell said on its Ideas in Action
> page. Users get to vote on various suggestions, and the notion of
> bringing back XP got 10,000 "points," making it among the most
> popular requests but well below top picks such as adding Linux or
> OpenOffice.org to its PCs.
>
> Hey, lookie thar... "Bring back XP" was among the most popular
> requests... but *behind* "add Linux".

I wasn't aware Dell was the only OEM in the world.

[snips]

On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 23:31:59 -0500, DFS wrote:

> I wasn't aware Dell was the only OEM in the world.

Irrelevant; they are a major OEM and their clientele has shown a
significant demand for XP over Vista, thus adequately demonstrating that
"few people are demanding XP when they can get Vista" is at best a
questionable statement: Dell's customers *can* get Vista, but they don't
want it: if they're buying Windows, they want XP.

Unless you're planning to demonstrate that Dell's customers are a wildly
non-representative set of the computer-buying population at large, we
must, then, consider that their experience at least approximately model
the real world - meaning many Windows users actively demand XP even when
they can get Vista, which is exactly the opposite of what you claimed.

[snips]

On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 11:27:38 -0500, DFS wrote:

>> Users are voting with their feet, Lanci said, so that the Vista launch
>> has had the smallest impact on PC sales of any version of Windows in
>> the history of PC manufacturing.
>> ...
>
> Yes, how about them:
>
> Dell recommends Windows Vista
> Acer recommends Windows Vista
>
> Why don't they recommend Linux?

Offhand, I can think of two reasons. One, advertising contracts which
require them to actively promote the Great New Microsoft OS(tm). Two,
purchasing contracts which require them to buy a certain volume of
licenses for the Great New Microsoft OS(tm), meaning they have to eat the
costs, risk losing any price breaks they would get on future and possibly
more viable versions of Windows, by sending back said licenses, or to do
what they are doing - promoting it, while offering the options people
actually do want - XP and Linux.

At least, with the way they're doing it, if they do have to eat losses on
the Vista licenses, they'll have sold some and not be out quite as much as
they would otherwise... and, as noted, they may well be required to say
they recommend it by their contracts.

DFS wrote:
> Kelsey Bjarnason wrote:
>> [snips]
>>
>> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 21:44:37 -0500, DFS wrote:
>>> Either way, it's not true on the whole or on the half. Few people
>>> are demanding XP when they can get Vista
>> Ah. That explains:
>>
>> 1) The run on system purchases just prior to Vista actually hitting
>> the shelf - when you were assured of actually getting something
>> _other_ than Vista
>>
>> 2) Dell's bringing back XP *after* switching almost their entire
>> lineup of Windows offerings to Vista
>>
>> 3) Comments like the following (from Dell):
>>
>> "We heard you loud and clear on bringing the Windows XP option back
>> to our Dell consumer PC offerings," Dell said on its Ideas in Action
>> page. Users get to vote on various suggestions, and the notion of
>> bringing back XP got 10,000 "points," making it among the most
>> popular requests but well below top picks such as adding Linux or
>> OpenOffice.org to its PCs.
>>
>> Hey, lookie thar... "Bring back XP" was among the most popular
>> requests... but *behind* "add Linux".
>
> I wasn't aware Dell was the only OEM in the world.

I guess you weren't aware Dell wasn't the only OEM disappointed with
Vista, were you?

How about Dell and Acer?

http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,134962-c,vistalonghorn/article.html

Acer president Gianfranco Lanci:'The whole industry is disappointed with
Windows Vista'
....
Users are voting with their feet, Lanci said, so that the Vista launch
has had the smallest impact on PC sales of any version of Windows in the
history of PC manufacturing.
....



--
Timo Pirinen
pirisisi.TakeThisOut@dlc.fi

Timo Pirinen wrote:
> DFS wrote:
>> Kelsey Bjarnason wrote:
>>> [snips]
>>>
>>> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 21:44:37 -0500, DFS wrote:
>>>> Either way, it's not true on the whole or on the half. Few people
>>>> are demanding XP when they can get Vista
>>> Ah. That explains:
>>>
>>> 1) The run on system purchases just prior to Vista actually hitting
>>> the shelf - when you were assured of actually getting something
>>> _other_ than Vista
>>>
>>> 2) Dell's bringing back XP *after* switching almost their entire
>>> lineup of Windows offerings to Vista
>>>
>>> 3) Comments like the following (from Dell):
>>>
>>> "We heard you loud and clear on bringing the Windows XP option back
>>> to our Dell consumer PC offerings," Dell said on its Ideas in Action
>>> page. Users get to vote on various suggestions, and the notion of
>>> bringing back XP got 10,000 "points," making it among the most
>>> popular requests but well below top picks such as adding Linux or
>>> OpenOffice.org to its PCs.
>>>
>>> Hey, lookie thar... "Bring back XP" was among the most popular
>>> requests... but *behind* "add Linux".
>>
>> I wasn't aware Dell was the only OEM in the world.
>
> I guess you weren't aware Dell wasn't the only OEM disappointed with
> Vista, were you?
>
> How about Dell and Acer?
>
> http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,134962-c,vistalonghorn/article.html
>
> Acer president Gianfranco Lanci:'The whole industry is disappointed
> with Windows Vista'
> ...
> Users are voting with their feet, Lanci said, so that the Vista launch
> has had the smallest impact on PC sales of any version of Windows in
> the history of PC manufacturing.
> ...

Yes, how about them:

Dell recommends Windows Vista
Acer recommends Windows Vista

Why don't they recommend Linux?

On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 11:27:38 -0500, DFS wrote:

> Timo Pirinen wrote:
>> DFS wrote:
>>> Kelsey Bjarnason wrote:
>>>> [snips]
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 21:44:37 -0500, DFS wrote:
>>>>> Either way, it's not true on the whole or on the half. Few people
>>>>> are demanding XP when they can get Vista
>>>> Ah. That explains:
>>>>
>>>> 1) The run on system purchases just prior to Vista actually hitting
>>>> the shelf - when you were assured of actually getting something
>>>> _other_ than Vista
>>>>
>>>> 2) Dell's bringing back XP *after* switching almost their entire
>>>> lineup of Windows offerings to Vista
>>>>
>>>> 3) Comments like the following (from Dell):
>>>>
>>>> "We heard you loud and clear on bringing the Windows XP option back
>>>> to our Dell consumer PC offerings," Dell said on its Ideas in Action
>>>> page. Users get to vote on various suggestions, and the notion of
>>>> bringing back XP got 10,000 "points," making it among the most
>>>> popular requests but well below top picks such as adding Linux or
>>>> OpenOffice.org to its PCs.
>>>>
>>>> Hey, lookie thar... "Bring back XP" was among the most popular
>>>> requests... but *behind* "add Linux".
>>>
>>> I wasn't aware Dell was the only OEM in the world.
>>
>> I guess you weren't aware Dell wasn't the only OEM disappointed with
>> Vista, were you?
>>
>> How about Dell and Acer?
>>
>> http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,134962-c,vistalonghorn/article.html
>>
>> Acer president Gianfranco Lanci:'The whole industry is disappointed
>> with Windows Vista'
>> ...
>> Users are voting with their feet, Lanci said, so that the Vista launch
>> has had the smallest impact on PC sales of any version of Windows in
>> the history of PC manufacturing.
>> ...
>
> Yes, how about them:
>
> Dell recommends Windows Vista
> Acer recommends Windows Vista
>
> Why don't they recommend Linux?

Advertising contracts.

--
Rick

Kelsey Bjarnason <kbjarnason RemoveThis @gmail.com> writes:

> [snips]
>
> On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 23:31:59 -0500, DFS wrote:
>
>> I wasn't aware Dell was the only OEM in the world.
>
> Irrelevant; they are a major OEM and their clientele has shown a
> significant demand for XP over Vista, thus adequately demonstrating that
> "few people are demanding XP when they can get Vista" is at best a
> questionable statement: Dell's customers *can* get Vista, but they don't
> want it: if they're buying Windows, they want XP.

*SOME*

>
> Unless you're planning to demonstrate that Dell's customers are a wildly
> non-representative set of the computer-buying population at large, we
> must, then, consider that their experience at least approximately model
> the real world - meaning many Windows users actively demand XP even when
> they can get Vista, which is exactly the opposite of what you claimed.

--