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[News] [Linux] Microsoft's Linux Obsession, Apple Anvy

 
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Roy Schestowitz

External


Since: Apr 10, 2007
Posts: 6156



(Msg. 1) Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 9:06 pm
Post subject: [News] [Linux] Microsoft's Linux Obsession, Apple Anvy
Archived from groups: comp>os>linux>advocacy (more info?)

Has Microsoft Gone Linux-Crazy?

,----[ Quote ]
| Before anybody says "Maybe Microsoft wants to go into the Unix
| business themselves." - remember, they already tried that. Xenix was
| the Microsoft Unix, leveraged through them to eventually become SCO
| Unix. And we all know how that turned out, don't we?
`----

http://www.askreamaor.com/computer-related/linux-and-unix/has-microsof...one-lin

Canon shows off Windows Vista running a Mac application in printer TV ad

,----[ Quote ]
| And whilst I'm over-analyzing, if you look closely, you'd notice
| they're running Windows Vista Beta 2 with the 'old' icons and
| Media Player mini-player. Just a bit of extra useless
| information for the weekend.
`----

http://www.istartedsomething.com/20070610/canon-ad-mac-on-vista/


Related:

Xenix: The Microsoft Linux

,----[ Quote ]
| Later versions of Xenix did have networking support (and increased
| hardware support), but by this time, Linux had already started making
| its way into the business world.
`----

http://www.whenpenguinsattack.com/2007/05/29/xenix-the-microsoft-linux/


Apple Envy Seizes Microsoft

,----[ Quote ]
| When put in this context Microsoft just seems so big and slow and
| old, hidebound by 30 years of culture and organizational silos
| that seem impregnable. And it appears that Vista - the product,
| the PR, the marketing approach - is the result of such an
| organization. At times brilliant, very heavy, complicated and
| expensive. This is not a product for today. This is a product
| for an era when the desktop ruled. And that era is long gone.
`----

http://biz.yahoo.com/seekingalpha/070206/26163_id.html?.v=2


Emails show MS experienced OS X Tiger envy

,----[ Quote ]
| Newly released documents reveal that Microsoft executives
| were awed by Apple's future operating system features,
| saying that the it may not be able to achieve Apple's
| innovation levels and acknowledging future, similar
| Windows Vista features would be directly compared with Mac OS X.
`----

http://www.macnn.com/articles/07/02/08/ms.inspired.by.os.x.tiger/


Microsoft 'officelabs' looks to open source for inspiration

,----[ Quote ]
| Is a commercial software vendor like Microsoft really ready
| and able to think more like its open-source competitors? Will
| a change in philosophy lead to changes in Microsoft product
| development and delivery (in our lifetimes)? Guess we'll see.
`----

http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=248


NT influenced by Unix

,----[ Quote ]
| (Gates:) "And through Windows NT, you can see it throughout the design.
| In a weak sense, it is a form of Unix. There are so many of the
| design decisions that have been influenced by that environment. And
| that's no accident."
`----

http://aplawrence.com/Unixart/gates_quote.html


The Redmond Copying Machine?

,----[ Quote ]
| "Amazing. New software is put out, a manager sees it and decides that the
| creative part of their day is making color screen captures of the
| software and presenting it to the copying--er, engineering team."
`----

http://pogue.blogs.nytimes.com/2006/12/18/the-redmond-copying-machine/


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDNuq94Zg_8
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John Locke

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Since: Apr 10, 2007
Posts: 406



(Msg. 2) Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 9:06 pm
Post subject: Re: [News] [Linux] Microsoft's Linux Obsession, Apple Anvy [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Mon, 11 Jun 2007 02:06:05 +0100, Roy Schestowitz
<newsgroups RemoveThis @schestowitz.com> wrote:

>Has Microsoft Gone Linux-Crazy?
>
>| Before anybody says "Maybe Microsoft wants to go into the Unix
>| business themselves." - remember, they already tried that. Xenix was
>| the Microsoft Unix, leveraged through them to eventually become SCO
>| Unix. And we all know how that turned out, don't we?

Its in the wind. They're getting smarter. They've fianlly figured out
that you don't need 75,000 people, a bunch of over paid execs, 500
lawyers and six years to produce an operating system. Here comes
MicroLux ! The latest and greatest distro from your favorite software
company.
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Rex Ballard

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Since: Jun 04, 2007
Posts: 93



(Msg. 3) Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 10:48 pm
Post subject: Re: [Linux] Microsoft's Linux Obsession, Apple Anvy [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Jun 10, 9:06 pm, Roy Schestowitz <newsgro... RemoveThis @schestowitz.com>
wrote:
> Has Microsoft Gone Linux-Crazy?
>
> ,----[ Quote ]
> | Before anybody says "Maybe Microsoft wants to go into the Unix
> | business themselves."

Microsoft would LOVE to have all of the capabilities, features,
performance, and reliability of Linux and/or Unix - but only if they
could maintain monopoly control over the entire market in the process.

Fundamentally, UNIX is a standards driven system. Almost from it's
inception, UNIX has depended on the ability of a number of talented
contributors, who make sure that UNIX ran on lots of different chip
sets, lots of different hardware, and that it ran lots of different
software.

AT&T wasn't allowed to "Sell" UNIX, so they gave it to a number of
universities, especially in the United States. Over time, the college
students created version of UNIX which was even better than the AT&T
version. When AT&T was finally permitted to market System III, they
found the market unreceptive, even hostile. Unix administrators had
come to really like, even depend on, features of the BSD version of
UNIX, such as VI, CSH, aliases, symbolic links, setuid, and wheel
groups, that when AT&T didn't provide them, it was such a complete
shortfall, that AT&T almost lost the market before they started. Bill
Joy and Scott McNealy formed Sun Microsystems, and very successfully
created a version of UNIX which not only combined the best features of
System III and BSD 4.x, but also provided graphics and graphical
interfaces that were competitive with Macs. Even at $35,000 per
workstation, many companies bought these CAD/CAM systems, which had
the ability to transform drafting done on the UNIX machine, into
machining instructions for the automated tools. This made it much
easier for car makers to introduce and test new features in
automobiles, including fuel injection, computerized ignition, and
electronic mixture control.

> - remember, they already tried that. Xenix was
> | the Microsoft Unix, leveraged through them to eventually become SCO
> | Unix. And we all know how that turned out, don't we?
> `----

There is a distinct possibility that when IBM had the discussion about
an Operating System, and Bill Gates said "We have an operating
system", IBM may have thought that Bill was talking about Xenix.
Microsoft had introduced Xenix for the Radio Shack Tandy 6000
computer. The only problem was that the Tandy computer was based on
the 68000 processor, not the 8086 or 8088 processor.

Bill preferred the DEC PDP-11 Operating system (RT11), which he had
used while working at a time-share outfit in Seattle. It was a much
simpler system and didn't require the complexity of the real-time
preemptive multitasking operating systems such as RSTS, and UNIX.

IBM may have actually been relieved to see QDOS instead. Keep in mind
that CP/M and CP/M-86 as well as MP/M, were cutting deeply into the
market for the IBM Series 1 computer. The computer was originally
developed to compete with the PDP-11, but when DOS/VS and MVS proved
to be too slow, they developed a skunk-works operating system called
EDX (Event Driven eXecutive), which was fast enough to compete with
PDP, but cheap enough in combination with EDX multitasking, to compete
in the minicomputer market.

IBM was as much concerned about protecting their mainframe market, as
they were about entering the PC market. This may be one of the
reasons why there were so many similarities between the 3278 and 3290
terminals, and the earliest versions of the PC. IBM saw the PC as a
terminal that might run a few programs off the local floppy or tape
drive.

Microsoft sold off it's interest to SCO because it needed to fund
Windows. Apple had just introduced a newer version of the Mac, and
Microsoft was getting some really intense pressure from the OEMs.
Worse, the FTC was also investigating Microsoft for fraud on the basis
of it's frequent use of Vaperware. Microsoft had promised
multitasking in Windows 4.0, and had barely delivered a useless
interrupt which **could** be used to pass control between TSR
programs.

SCO wanted more than just the intellectual property rights. They knew
that there were several flavors of UNIX available in the marketplace,
so they wanted a contract which prevented Microsoft from re-entering
the UNIX marketplace. Even to release TCP/IP, Microsoft had to get
permission from SCO.

In about 1989, Microsoft signed the deal, and many pundits quipped
that "Bill could by this company with his cab fare money". What they,
and Bill, didn't realize, was that SCO had contacted all of the other
UNIX vendors, and companies who were threatened by Microsoft, and let
them know enough about the deal that they snapped up nearly all of the
outstanding shares. Microsoft owned 25% of the company, but about all
that got them was the ability to have their guy hired as CFO. This
gave Microsoft valuable market intelligence, but not enough to gain
control of SCO. The stalemate lasted from 1989 until Caldera
attempted to purchase the SCO support organization in 2001. In this
bid, they engaged in stock swaps, IPOs, and debentures, that
ultimately gave "friends of Microsoft" control of the company. In a
proxy war, Ransom Love was fired, Daryl McBride was hired, and Caldera
purchased the rights to the SCO version of UNIX. This change of
ownership nullified the non-compete clause of the contract with
Microsoft. In addition, SCO over-extended itself in it's funding of
the lawsuit against IBM. Microsoft agreed to purchase unlimited
distribution rights to UNIX from SCO, for undisclosed terms. It
appears that Microsoft may have paid as little as $7 million, or as
much as $7 million per year indefinately. Either way, it was a
bargain.

Microsoft had two interests at that point. The first was to keep
Linux off the market as long as they possibly could. A lawsuit
involving the intellectual property rights of Linux was a great way to
spread fear, uncertainty, and doubt.

Ironically, Daryl McBride had already been told that they had no
case. Against the advice of his best technical and legal people, he
insisted that the lawsuit be filed anyway.

The lawsuit ultimately turned into the ultimate "pump and dump"
scheme. McBride had been paid 1 million shares of SCO stock (worth 75
cents/share at the time), and the lawsuit against IBM, combined with
threats of injunctions against Linux users who didn't pay extortion
money "up front" boosted the stock price to as high as $25/share. At
which point, McBride, several relatives and business associates, and
other company officers, began "trickle dumping" the stock.

These folks knew the lawsuit was groundless, that they couldn't prove
malice, that they couldn't even prove intellectual property theft, let
alone that it was IBM who was responsible. Microsoft brokered the
deal with Goldfarb or Bay Star, probably as a way to bolster the stock
price as McBride and his buddies continued to dump stock.

IBM could have had ALL of the claims dismissed, but very carefully
allowed certain claims to remain. Nearly all of these claims were
based on intellectual property that was actually OWNED by IBM. IBM
had been using many of these "devices" since DOS/VS, MVS, CICS, and VM/
CMS. IBM did contribute some of this code to the Monterrey project,
but it was their code, they owned it, and at best, SCO was getting a
nonexclusive license to the code.

Leaving these claims on the table gave IBM the ability to look for
deeper pockets. By proving that SCO was not only engaging in an
illegal extortion scheme, but was attempting to steal IBM code, for a
"sponsor" (Microsoft), IBM could go after Microsoft's deeper pockets.

At this point, McBride may even be blackmailing top executives at
Microsoft. If Gates, Ballmer, Allchin, and other top MSFT executives
did broker the deals, McBride probably has the smoking gun memos in
off-line storage (out of the reach of the courts).

Bill Gates predicted, in 1997, shortly after the release of Windows
NT, that Windows had about 5 years of life left in it. He made it
clear that he would try to extend that to 10 years if he could, but
even then he knew it was only a matter of time before Linux/Unix began
to become an irresistable force in the PC marketplace. Unix had
shifted the market and dominated the minicomputer market about 7-10
years after it entered that market. It dominated the mainframe and
supercomputer market about 10 years after it entered that market.
Most consider the first "Entry" of Linux into the PC market in a
really aggressive way, to be Red Hat 4.0, which tied with NT 4.0 for
"Product of the Year".

Gates knew that Linux would eventually become a critical part of the
IT desktop landscape. He also knew that there were ways he could
squeeze a great deal of profit out of the OEMs and Corporate IT
managers before that final shift to Linux. He knew that during the
transition period, he could still make profits selling "Legacy
compatibility".

Vista was the "final showdown". It was Microsoft's final attempt to
prove that they were in control of the marketplace. That it would be
Microsoft who would define the hardware and software that people would
use. Much the same way IBM used MVS 4.0 to try and prover their
market power in 1991. Both attempts backfired.

Fortunately, Microsoft had learned from IBM. They realized that they
could actually make MORE money selling Windows with "additional rights
and flexibilities", than they could if they simply sold the licenses
outright. Instead of paying less for XP, OEMs pay MORE for the right
to ship machines with XP instead of Vista. Instead of paying less for
an older version that's Linux compatible, they pay MORE for the right
to sell a version which permits it's use as a VM client. Instead of
less for a product that has to compete, Microsoft gets more for
permitting the OEMs to install additional 3rd party software
(including Linux) in their standard ship image.

It is getting pretty clear, however, that Linux IS driving the
hardware configurations being purchased. Linux compatible systems
such as the Z-60p are on allocation and buyers must wait for the
opportunity to buy. Vista-Only systems which are Linux hostile and
contain DirectX10 cards are being discounted 30% or more. By the time
the OEMs complete their negotiations with Microsoft, in July, it's
expected that the price paid for PCs running Vista will be 1/2 the
prices being collected for Linux-Ready systems. The profits on Vista-
Only systems will be nonexistent.

Microsoft's big consolation is that Bill Gates gets to retire on a
high note. He's been selling about 2 million shares a day, and
shortly after he retires, it's quite possible that it will become
public knowledge that Microsoft has lost control of the OEM channel.

Apple can't keep up with demand. Mac Mini machines are being sold off
the display floor. High-end Mac machines are often on back-order.

OEMs are looking at the success of OS/X and they want something that
can compete. It's now very clear that Microsoft's Vista isn't the
answer.

Meanwhile, Microsoft appears to have set up License agreements with
Novell and Xandros - it looks like they are hoping to have the ability
to sell "Windows Compatibility" to OEMs who want to preinstall Linux
in their PCs. There are some indicators that HP, Dell, Sony, and
Lennovo are all on the brink of offering a new hybrid image. This
might mean using Linux as the host operating system and some flavor of
Windows as a VM guest.

The irony here, is that Microsoft may be attempting to claim
proprietary ownership and control over VM technology that was
originally developed by IBM for it's VM/CMS technology back in the
1960s.

> http://www.askreamaor.com/computer-related/linux-and-unix/has-microso...
>
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Roy Schestowitz

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Since: Apr 10, 2007
Posts: 6156



(Msg. 4) Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 3:19 am
Post subject: Re: [News] [Linux] Microsoft's Linux Obsession, Apple Anvy [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

__/ [ John Locke ] on Monday 11 June 2007 06:45 \__

> On Mon, 11 Jun 2007 02:06:05 +0100, Roy Schestowitz
> <newsgroups RemoveThis @schestowitz.com> wrote:
>
>>Has Microsoft Gone Linux-Crazy?
>>
>>| Before anybody says "Maybe Microsoft wants to go into the Unix
>>| business themselves." - remember, they already tried that. Xenix was
>>| the Microsoft Unix, leveraged through them to eventually become SCO
>>| Unix. And we all know how that turned out, don't we?
>
> Its in the wind. They're getting smarter. They've fianlly figured out
> that you don't need 75,000 people, a bunch of over paid execs, 500
> lawyers and six years to produce an operating system. Here comes
> MicroLux ! The latest and greatest distro from your favorite software
> company.

The New Linux Distro

,----[ Quote ]
| The New Distro is Microsoft
|
| These companies are now paying Microsoft. Sure, Microsoft is paying
| them as well...but the kicker is this: These companies are paying
| Microsoft for Linux.
`----

http://linux-blog.org/index.php?/archives/215-The-New-Linux-Distro.html

We don't have to buy it though. Also, since it's GPLv3-licensed (or otherwise
rusty and outdated, stuck in the state of 2007), you can fork and
redistribute it. Choose your own EULA. Hopefully Microsoft will assign a lot
of engineer to this, in order to improve your /own/ distro. Maybe it'll even
donate a few mirrors with Akamai...

GPLv3 is quite a tragic event for Microsoft. At least it managed to take down
Xandros before the licence came out and before the CEO of Xandros woke up
and got knocked by the GPL cluebat. They apologise endlessly in the news,
but it's too late.

--
~~ Best of wishes
Roy S. Schestowitz | No SCO code was used to generate this sig
http://Schestowitz.com | Free as in Free Beer ¦ PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
Cpu(s): 8.7% user, 4.7% system, 0.8% nice, 85.8% idle
http://iuron.com - semantic engine to gather information
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Roy Schestowitz

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Since: Apr 10, 2007
Posts: 6156



(Msg. 5) Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 3:27 am
Post subject: Re: [News] [Linux] Microsoft's Linux Obsession, Apple Envy [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

__/ [ John Locke ] on Monday 11 June 2007 06:45 \__

> On Mon, 11 Jun 2007 02:06:05 +0100, Roy Schestowitz
> <newsgroups.TakeThisOut@schestowitz.com> wrote:
>
>>Has Microsoft Gone Linux-Crazy?
>>
>>| Before anybody says "Maybe Microsoft wants to go into the Unix
>>| business themselves." - remember, they already tried that. Xenix was
>>| the Microsoft Unix, leveraged through them to eventually become SCO
>>| Unix. And we all know how that turned out, don't we?
>
> Its in the wind. They're getting smarter. They've fianlly figured out
> that you don't need 75,000 people, a bunch of over paid execs, 500
> lawyers and six years to produce an operating system. Here comes
> MicroLux ! The latest and greatest distro from your favorite software
> company.

Oops. I should really reread the subject lines before posting. I write them
too fast and leave too many obvious typos (same in message bodies, but
that's less visible). Just to think that I used to have regrets and sorrow
when I spotted my typos a few years ago...
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[H]omer

External


Since: Apr 10, 2007
Posts: 980



(Msg. 6) Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 4:08 am
Post subject: Re: [News] [Linux] Microsoft's Linux Obsession, Apple Anvy [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Verily I say unto thee, that Roy Schestowitz spake thusly:

> GPLv3 is quite a tragic event for Microsoft. At least it managed to take down
> Xandros before the licence came out

Won't do them any good. Unlike Microvell, Xandros missed the
"Grandfather clause" deadline.

dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/null

--
K.
http://slated.org

,----
| Vista | 3D Desktop | Cheap : Choose two.
`----

Fedora release 7 (Moonshine) on sky, running kernel 2.6.21-1.3194.fc7
09:06:50 up 5 days, 20:52, 0 users, load average: 0.89, 0.39, 0.25
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Roy Schestowitz

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Since: Apr 10, 2007
Posts: 6156



(Msg. 7) Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 4:49 am
Post subject: Re: [News] [Linux] Microsoft's Linux Obsession, Apple Anvy [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

__/ [ [H]omer ] on Monday 11 June 2007 09:08 \__

> Verily I say unto thee, that Roy Schestowitz spake thusly:
>
>> GPLv3 is quite a tragic event for Microsoft. At least it managed to take
>> down Xandros before the licence came out
>
> Won't do them any good. Unlike Microvell, Xandros missed the
> "Grandfather clause" deadline.
>
> dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/null

Yes. The end of March. March of death, anyone?

--
~~ Best of wishes
Beware the Windows box spewage (more commonly known as "spam")
http://Schestowitz.com | RHAT GNU/Linux ¦ PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
run-level 5 Jun 11 08:03 last=S
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Rex Ballard

External


Since: Jun 04, 2007
Posts: 93



(Msg. 8) Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 6:37 am
Post subject: Re: [Linux] Microsoft's Linux Obsession, Apple Anvy [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Jun 11, 1:45 am, John Locke <johnlocke98... DeleteThis @comcast.net> wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Jun 2007 02:06:05 +0100, Roy Schestowitz
>
> <newsgro... DeleteThis @schestowitz.com> wrote:
> >Has Microsoft Gone Linux-Crazy?
>
> >| Before anybody says "Maybe Microsoft wants to go into the Unix
> >| business themselves." - remember, they already tried that. Xenix was
> >| the Microsoft Unix, leveraged through them to eventually become SCO
> >| Unix. And we all know how that turned out, don't we?
>
> Its in the wind. They're getting smarter. They've fianlly figured out
> that you don't need 75,000 people, a bunch of over paid execs, 500
> lawyers and six years to produce an operating system. Here comes
> MicroLux ! The latest and greatest distro from your favorite software
> company.

Not so far off. Microsoft has done some deep dives into the Linux
source code, and despite attempts to heavily promote it's proprietary
technology, has had to admit that Linux does offer some advantages,
especially in terms of performance and reliability. They have a
project called synergy which is an attempt to implement a Linux-like
kernel in C# using a "clean-room" reverse engineering environment
(possibly one of the reasons Microsoft is going to Linux distributors
in an attempt to prevent getting sued for patent violations, or having
their synergy patents nullified). Still, the last video presentation
I saw on Synergy said that we probably wouldn't see a production OS
with this technology until about 2016. There might be a STABLE
version by 2020.

On the other hand, if Linux does take hold in the OEM distribution
channel, Microsoft already has a foot in the door - in the form of
WINE.

Remember, WINE only implements the OS level API functions of Windows.
It does not implement the Microsoft DLLs, including several of the
DLLs included in Windows XP. To use these DLLs users must have a
machine that is properly licensed for Windows XP.

In Microsoft's "All or Nothing" gamble, they expressly forbid the use
of Vista DLLs with Linux - in ANY version of Vista. This may be one
reason why so many PC buyers, especially corporate PC buyers have said
"Hasta La Vista VISTA forever". These companies aren't even saying
"maybe when SP1 comes out. In fact, some companies just declared that
they would not want vista as soon as Microsoft announced it's EULA
agreements.

This has left Microsoft with a problem. If OEMs continue to
expirience Vista hostility, customers say XP and NOT VISTA, they are
more likely to insist on a "Microsoft Linux" solution. The OEMs will
set up with their favorite distributor, then purchase a version of
Windows which is licensed to, and designed to, run efficiently under
WINE, Xen, or VMWare.

Many ISVs have already backpedaled on Vista, and have now begun
testing their applications with Crossover to assure that their
applications will run under Crossover as well as Windows.

Even if the OEM continues to offer Windows as the primary operating
system, it has become more and more evident that the real profits and
demand are in systems that can run Linux as the primary operating
system and can run a version of Windows as a "Virtual Client".

The irony is that even Windows NT 4.0 works nicely as a virtual client
for many office users. Since Linux handles USB, WiFi, and security,
Windows NT 4.0 is enough for many users.

Microsoft has overplayed their hand, tried to bluff their way out of
it, and now, with lots of chips on the table, their hand has been
called. Microsoft isn't out of the game completely, but their role as
the sole dominant player in the OEM OS market has all but
disintigrated.
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Hadron Quark

External


Since: Apr 10, 2007
Posts: 920



(Msg. 9) Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 8:03 am
Post subject: Re: [News] [Linux] Microsoft's Linux Obsession, Apple Anvy [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Rafael <rafael.TakeThisOut@ninjaNOSPAM.org> writes:

>
> http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/msdoj/2002/FinalDecree.pdf
>
> UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA

Google. Putting information at the fingertips of idiots.

>
> STATE OF NEW YORK, et al., Plaintiffs v.
> MICROSOFT CORPORATION, Defendant.
>
> Civil Action No. 98-1233 (CKK)
> FINAL JUDGMENT
>
> Page 27
>
> [quote]
> The United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia
> Circuit having affirmed the District Court's finding of liability
> against Microsoft for violation of § 2 of the Sherman Act and the
> state law counterparts to § 2 of the Sherman Act in the states of
> California, Connecticut, Florida, Iowa, Kansas, Minnesota, Utah, and
> West Virginia, the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, and the District of
> Columbia, and having remanded to this Court for an order of remedy;
> and
>
> Upon the record of trial and all prior and subsequent proceedings
> herein, it is this 1st day of November, 2002, hereby ORDERED, ADJUDGED
> AND DECREED as follows:
>
> <SNIP>
>
> V. Termination
>
> A. Unless this Court grants an extension, this Final Judgment will
> expire on the fifth anniversary of the date on which it takes effect.
>
> B. In any enforcement proceeding in which the Court has found that
> Microsoft has engaged in a pattern of willful and systematic
> violations, the Plaintiffs may apply to the Court for a one-time
> extension of this Final Judgment of up to two years, together with
> such other relief as the Court may deem appropriate.
> [/quote]
>
> If I am reading this correctly, unless otherwise extended by the
> court, those sanctions against Microsoft initiated November 1, 2002
> will expire on November 1, 2007.
>
> Perhaps someone here may be able to share the significance or
> non-significance of this here.

--
Tax and title extra.
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Roy Schestowitz

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Since: Apr 10, 2007
Posts: 6156



(Msg. 10) Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 8:40 am
Post subject: Re: [Linux] Microsoft's Linux Obsession, Apple Anvy [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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__/ [ Rex Ballard ] on Monday 11 June 2007 12:37 \__

> Many ISVs have already backpedaled on Vista, and have now begun
> testing their applications with Crossover to assure that their
> applications will run under Crossover as well as Windows.

Are you aware of Novell's redacted disclosure and what it /appears/ to imply
about Wine and Crossover, despite Novell's stubborn denial (save face)?

I am aware that you discussed this before, but let's just wait and see
Microsoft's next step (they make a step or two every week. They pace it down
a bit in order for people to digest and absorb some FUD, then observe the
reaction).

--
~~ Best of wishes
Roy S. Schestowitz | Useless fact: Falsity implies anything
http://Schestowitz.com | GNU is Not UNIX | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
roy pts/5 cg001a.halls.man Mon Jun 11 13:21 still logged in
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Rafael

External


Since: Apr 30, 2007
Posts: 109



(Msg. 11) Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 2:29 pm
Post subject: Re: [News] [Linux] Microsoft's Linux Obsession, Apple Anvy [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Roy Schestowitz wrote:
> [H]omer on Monday
>
>> Verily I say unto thee, that Roy Schestowitz spake thusly:
>>
>>> GPLv3 is quite a tragic event for Microsoft. At least it
>>> managed to take down Xandros before the licence came out
>> Won't do them any good. Unlike Microvell, Xandros missed the
>> "Grandfather clause" deadline.
>>
>> dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/null
>
> Yes. The end of March. March of death, anyone?

I can't vouch for Microvell or Xandows, but here is something
interesting that I don't know the real significance of.

http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/msdoj/2002/FinalDecree.pdf

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA

STATE OF NEW YORK, et al., Plaintiffs v.
MICROSOFT CORPORATION, Defendant.

Civil Action No. 98-1233 (CKK)
FINAL JUDGMENT

Page 27

[quote]
The United States Court of Appeals for the District of
Columbia Circuit having affirmed the District Court’s finding of
liability against Microsoft for violation of § 2 of the Sherman
Act and the state law counterparts to § 2 of the Sherman Act in
the states of California, Connecticut, Florida, Iowa, Kansas,
Minnesota, Utah, and West Virginia, the Commonwealth of
Massachusetts, and the District of Columbia, and having remanded
to this Court for an order of remedy; and

Upon the record of trial and all prior and subsequent
proceedings herein, it is this 1st day of November, 2002, hereby
ORDERED, ADJUDGED AND DECREED as follows:

<SNIP>

V. Termination

A. Unless this Court grants an extension, this Final Judgment
will expire on the fifth anniversary of the date on which it
takes effect.

B. In any enforcement proceeding in which the Court has found
that Microsoft has engaged in a pattern of willful and systematic
violations, the Plaintiffs may apply to the Court for a one-time
extension of this Final Judgment of up to two years, together
with such other relief as the Court may deem appropriate.
[/quote]

If I am reading this correctly, unless otherwise extended by the
court, those sanctions against Microsoft initiated November 1,
2002 will expire on November 1, 2007.

Perhaps someone here may be able to share the significance or
non-significance of this here.

--
Cheers, Rafael

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/linux/advocacy/faq-and-primer/
http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk/killfile/anti_troll_faq.htm
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Roy Schestowitz

External


Since: Apr 10, 2007
Posts: 6156



(Msg. 12) Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 2:29 pm
Post subject: Re: [News] [Linux] Microsoft's Linux Obsession, Apple Anvy [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

__/ [ Rafael ] on Monday 11 June 2007 11:29 \__

> Roy Schestowitz wrote:
>> [H]omer on Monday
>>
>>> Verily I say unto thee, that Roy Schestowitz spake thusly:
>>>
>>>> GPLv3 is quite a tragic event for Microsoft. At least it
>>>> managed to take down Xandros before the licence came out
>>> Won't do them any good. Unlike Microvell, Xandros missed the
>>> "Grandfather clause" deadline.
>>>
>>> dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/null
>>
>> Yes. The end of March. March of death, anyone?
>
> I can't vouch for Microvell or Xandows, but here is something
> interesting that I don't know the real significance of.
>
> http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/msdoj/2002/FinalDecree.pdf
>
> UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA
>
> STATE OF NEW YORK, et al., Plaintiffs v.
> MICROSOFT CORPORATION, Defendant.
>
> Civil Action No. 98-1233 (CKK)
> FINAL JUDGMENT
>
> Page 27
>
> [quote]
> The United States Court of Appeals for the District of
> Columbia Circuit having affirmed the District Court?s finding of
> liability against Microsoft for violation of § 2 of the Sherman
> Act and the state law counterparts to § 2 of the Sherman Act in
> the states of California, Connecticut, Florida, Iowa, Kansas,
> Minnesota, Utah, and West Virginia, the Commonwealth of
> Massachusetts, and the District of Columbia, and having remanded
> to this Court for an order of remedy; and
>
> Upon the record of trial and all prior and subsequent
> proceedings herein, it is this 1st day of November, 2002, hereby
> ORDERED, ADJUDGED AND DECREED as follows:
>
> <SNIP>
>
> V. Termination
>
> A. Unless this Court grants an extension, this Final Judgment
> will expire on the fifth anniversary of the date on which it
> takes effect.
>
> B. In any enforcement proceeding in which the Court has found
> that Microsoft has engaged in a pattern of willful and systematic
> violations, the Plaintiffs may apply to the Court for a one-time
> extension of this Final Judgment of up to two years, together
> with such other relief as the Court may deem appropriate.
> [/quote]
>
> If I am reading this correctly, unless otherwise extended by the
> court, those sanctions against Microsoft initiated November 1,
> 2002 will expire on November 1, 2007.
>
> Perhaps someone here may be able to share the significance or
> non-significance of this here.

It would have been very fascinating if it was to expire on November 1st/2nd
of 2006 because Microsoft and/or Novell announced an urgent press release
just the same day or the day before the deal was struck, on November 2nd.
Bear in mind that they secretly negotiated for about 6 months prior to this.

The timing of the Fortune article on so-called patent violations (Sunday May
14th, IIRC) is no coincidence either. A one-page report was written to point
out that it was carefully written to intensify drama. Microsoft must have
worked on this together with Forbes, which is known to be anti-Free software
and employ astroturfers such as Dan Lyons.

--
~~ Best of wishes
Roy S. Schestowitz | "Avoid missing ball for higher score"
http://Schestowitz.com | GNU/Linux ¦ PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
Mem: 514480k total, 390924k used, 123556k free, 16980k buffers
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Ian Hilliard

External


Since: Apr 17, 2007
Posts: 126



(Msg. 13) Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 2:55 pm
Post subject: Re: [Linux] Microsoft's Linux Obsession, Apple Anvy [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Rex Ballard wrote:

> There is a distinct possibility that when IBM had the discussion about
> an Operating System, and Bill Gates said "We have an operating
> system", IBM may have thought that Bill was talking about Xenix.
> Microsoft had introduced Xenix for the Radio Shack Tandy 6000
> computer.  The only problem was that the Tandy computer was based on
> the 68000 processor, not the 8086 or 8088 processor.
>

Actually Xexix originally ran on the Tandy Model IIb. Unfortunately there
were a lot of hardware and software problems with Tandy's Xenix offerings.

The Model 6000 was quite an improvement. It still used a 68000 main
processor and Z80 I/O controller, but the main I/O was on the main board
and the BUS was physically more stable. The Model 6000 also had room to
mount the hard drive internally (originally 5MB). Unfortunately, Xenix was
still very unstable even with matched memory cards and all the recommended
mods to the hardware, of which there were many.

It was probably for good reason that Microsoft didn't offer Xenix for the
original PC. Xenix had a lot of issues and the clunky 8088 processor, with
its stupid memory model to keep it compatible with 8085 code, would have
made Xenix even more unstable. Xenix didn't become all that stable until
the original SCO got it running on the 386 using a flat memory model. As
far as I can remember, the first version of SCO Xenix ran on the 286.

Ian
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Rex Ballard

External


Since: Jun 04, 2007
Posts: 93



(Msg. 14) Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 3:46 pm
Post subject: Re: Microsoft's Linux Obsession, Apple Anvy [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Jun 11, 1:55 pm, Ian Hilliard <nos....TakeThisOut@hilliardtech.com> wrote:
> RexBallardwrote:
> > There is a distinct possibility that when IBM had the discussion about
> > an Operating System, and Bill Gates said "We have an operating
> > system", IBM may have thought that Bill was talking about Xenix.
> > Microsoft had introduced Xenix for the Radio Shack Tandy 6000
> > computer. The only problem was that the Tandy computer was based on
> > the 68000 processor, not the 8086 or 8088 processor.
>
> Actually Xexix originally ran on the Tandy Model IIb. Unfortunately there
> were a lot of hardware and software problems with Tandy's Xenix offerings.
>
> The Model 6000 was quite an improvement. It still used a 68000 main
> processor and Z80 I/O controller, but the main I/O was on the main board
> and the BUS was physically more stable. The Model 6000 also had room to
> mount the hard drive internally (originally 5MB). Unfortunately, Xenix was
> still very unstable even with matched memory cards and all the recommended
> mods to the hardware, of which there were many.

The biggest problem was that there was no MMU. Xenix and OS/9, at the
time, both ran on unprotected memory. Eventually, the 68010 would
have the "redo" functionality required to recover from a memory fault,
and even the 80286 mask would be fixed. The Zilog Z8000 chip set
included an MMU, and ran UNIX very well. Jerry Pournell (sic) had
Zeke, his Cromemco computer that ran ZEOS, a Unix variant designed for
the Z-80 with special MMU chip.

Tandy did offer OS/9 for their 6809 based Color Computer. It was
pretty impressive, given that the hardware was so limited. It was
quite a contrast to BASIC in ROM.

> It was probably for good reason that Microsoft didn't offer Xenix for the
> original PC. Xenix had a lot of issues and the clunky 8088 processor, with
> its stupid memory model to keep it compatible with 8085 code,

There were many people who felt that the dumbest thing Bill Gates had
done up to that time, was to opt for a 4 bit offset and accept a 1
megabyte memory map. The 80286 was shifted to 8 bits (when not
running in "Real Mode". And the 80386 came with a built in MMU.

Ironically, the MMU wasn't that hard to build in hardware. Many
companies did build very effective memory managers for either
segmented or demand paged memory. Remember, AT&T Version 6 and
Version 7, as well as BSD 2.x used segmentation for memory
management. Demand Paged virtual memory was introduced to UNIX by the
BSD team.

> would have
> made Xenix even more unstable. Xenix didn't become all that stable until
> the original SCO got it running on the 386 using a flat memory model. As
> far as I can remember, the first version of SCO Xenix ran on the 286.

Xenix was never all that stable - period. Later more stable versions
were based on UnixWare and other variants of the original AT&T System
V and BSD kernels. There is also the possibility that the SCO team
may have peeked at the Linux play-book even before the Caldera take-
over.

SCO had some great technology, but after the IBM debacle, nobody wants
to go near it.
Linux does have a SysV API compatibility library, but it simply
imlements the public standards set by X/Open. The implementation is
radically different from AT&T's solution.

> Ian
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Rafael

External


Since: Jun 12, 2007
Posts: 12



(Msg. 15) Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 2:56 pm
Post subject: Re: [News] [Linux] Microsoft's Linux Obsession, Apple Anvy [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Roy Schestowitz wrote:
> Rafael on Monday
>
>> http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/msdoj/2002/FinalDecree.pdf

<SNIP>

>> V. Termination
>>
>> A. Unless this Court grants an extension, this Final
>> Judgment will expire on the fifth anniversary of the date on
>> which it takes effect.
>>
>> B. In any enforcement proceeding in which the Court has
>> found that Microsoft has engaged in a pattern of willful and
>> systematic violations, the Plaintiffs may apply to the Court
>> for a one-time extension of this Final Judgment of up to two
>> years, together with such other relief as the Court may deem
>> appropriate. [/quote]
>>
>> If I am reading this correctly, unless otherwise extended by
>> the court, those sanctions against Microsoft initiated
>> November 1, 2002 will expire on November 1, 2007.
>>
>> Perhaps someone here may be able to share the significance
>> or non-significance of this here.
>
> It would have been very fascinating if it was to expire on
> November 1st/2nd of 2006 because Microsoft and/or Novell
> announced an urgent press release just the same day or the day
> before the deal was struck, on November 2nd.
>
> Bear in mind that they secretly negotiated for about 6 months
> prior to this.
>
> The timing of the Fortune article on so-called patent
> violations (Sunday May 14th, IIRC) is no coincidence either. A
> one-page report was written to point out that it was carefully
> written to intensify drama. Microsoft must have worked on this
> together with Forbes, which is known to be anti-Free software
> and employ astroturfers such as Dan Lyons.

It is kind of sad that news media must be manipulated, instead of
laissez faire. It makes it tough for the little guy to compete
against monopoly considerations. Yet, competition helps to bring
a better product and a better price to the consumer. There was a
study done by the US Government pre-dating WOW2, which basically
stated that in order to receive a fair price required at least 10
competitors.

You do not see that with the automobile industry. There is more
interdependence than independence. You wonder why motor vehicles
are so expensive.

This is why Open Source and Linux is important. Besides
providing value, it helps to keep all proprietary software
concern's costs down.

--
Cheers, Rafael

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/linux/advocacy/faq-and-primer/
http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk/killfile/anti_troll_faq.htm
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