Digg spurns Google for young Microsoft ..

waterskidoo <water.skidoo RemoveThis @yahoo.com> writes:

> On 2007-07-28, Kier <vallon RemoveThis @tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>> On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 15:49:49 -0700, Tim Smith wrote:
>
>> If so, that's a rather foolish opinion. We as Linux users may not like the
>> idea that many people are not only not dissatisfied with Windows, but
>> actually like it and enjoy using it, but denying this fact is the wrong
>> way to go about promoting Linux to them.
>
> I have a friend like that who absolutely hates iTunes.

Why would anyone hate iTunes? It's much easier to use for playlists than
any Linux player I can think of. More importantly it has built in
normalization which no Linux player has afaik (I would gladly be
corrected on this one).

I can understand someone preferring, say, Amarok, but to "hate" iTunes
wreaks of the zealot to me.

> I agree with his points, but I also acknowledge that iTunes is
> hugely popular and if not the most used legal download site
> is certainly near the top of the list.
> He refuses to acknowledge this and believes it's all hype
> in order to sell iPods, which he hates as well.

Aha. We are beginning to see a pattern. iPods, as their sales have
proven, are wonderfully designed and functional. Great devices and
continue to dominate the market.

> As for Windows one has to separate the product from the user.
> From a design POV or say a technical POV Windows has problems.

So does Linux. It's SW. All SW has problems. The slow and tortuous move
to ALSA as the sound architecture being one. The horrible support for
ATI cards being another. The total inability to use USB Wireless dongles
being another (or has that improved?).

> However that does not prevent the majority of computer users
> from happily using it. Windows is everywhere running businesses
> monitoring critical devices and collecting data and that's
> a fact.
> Would Linux be a better choice?
> Probably in most cases at least in my opinion.

Really? For the average desktop? Actually yes. I think it would (now)
too. But it's simply too late. It missed the boat. And why? Because
fools like Gregory Shearman didn't want to improve anything as it was
"good enough for them" 10 years ago. It took real people with real
foresight (people like Mark Shuttleworth) to see the potential and to
address the issues. And what do we find? Suddenly DELL is back to
shipping Linux (Ubuntu) boxes.

> The point is, denying Windows popularity just makes the
> person look silly.

And so does predicting Windows demise and lying about the uptake in
Linux which is so common practice by the likes of Roy "spammer"
Schestowitz, Mark Kent, chrisv, AB, High Plains Rafael etc.

>> A lot of Windows users may well be pretty neutral on the issue, but I
>> can't believe *none* of them like the OS they're using, that they all have
>> to be paid to defend it or praise it. That's ridiculous.

Of course. But "ridiculous == normal" in COLA. It's the way.

The good thing about Kier is that he IS realistic most of the time.

>
> Zealots are everywhere but I find less Windows zealots than Apple
> or Linux zealots and when I run into a true Windows zealot
> often I get the feeling that this person has an agenda.

All zealots have an agenda. It's why they are zealots.

On Sat, 28 Jul 2007 14:46:32 +0000, waterskidoo wrote:

> On 2007-07-28, Kier <vallon.TakeThisOut@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>> On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 15:49:49 -0700, Tim Smith wrote:
>
>> If so, that's a rather foolish opinion. We as Linux users may not like the
>> idea that many people are not only not dissatisfied with Windows, but
>> actually like it and enjoy using it, but denying this fact is the wrong
>> way to go about promoting Linux to them.
>
> I have a friend like that who absolutely hates iTunes.
> I agree with his points, but I also acknowledge that iTunes is
> hugely popular and if not the most used legal download site
> is certainly near the top of the list.
> He refuses to acknowledge this and believes it's all hype
> in order to sell iPods, which he hates as well.

What does he hate about them? Design-wise, they are things of beuaty, and
the thumb-scroll-wheel is brilliant. Of course, there is and always will
be some element of hype, but I don't believe all their popularity can be
put down to that.

>
> As for Windows one has to separate the product from the user.
> From a design POV or say a technical POV Windows has problems.
> However that does not prevent the majority of computer users
> from happily using it. Windows is everywhere running businesses
> monitoring critical devices and collecting data and that's
> a fact.
> Would Linux be a better choice?
> Probably in most cases at least in my opinion.

Likewise. It's just that Windows got there first, and has established
itself as a de-facto standard. Personally, I don't see Linux dislodging
Windows soon, if ever, what I thnk is more likely is that Windows use will
gradually decline in a natural way, of its own accord. Linux or some other
OS will equally gradually move in to fill the gaps.

> The point is, denying Windows popularity just makes the
> person look silly.
>
>
>> A lot of Windows users may well be pretty neutral on the issue, but I
>> can't believe *none* of them like the OS they're using, that they all have
>> to be paid to defend it or praise it. That's ridiculous.
>
> Zealots are everywhere but I find less Windows zealots than Apple
> or Linux zealots and when I run into a true Windows zealot
> often I get the feeling that this person has an agenda.
> The Vista group seems to have a few of this type.

I'm sure such people do exist, but not in the massive numbers some people
think.

> As an example, my friends like Windows and many of them
> are power users who spend a lot of time pounding the keyboard.
> They don't frequent Windows advocacy groups or blogs singing
> hymns to Bill Gates. They just use the product and accept or
> work around the faults. Some of them are getting into Linux now
> and they seem to be liking it so who knows.
> I think that the lack of traffic in the Windows advocacy groups
> is an indicator of what I am saying.
>
>> It's time we as advocates got away from this kind of thinking. Yes,
>> Windows and MS have their faults, some of them large and glaring and in
>> great need of fixing. But pointing out faults and saying that anyone who
>> uses Windows is a shill or a fool isn't the way to attract people to Linux.
>
> Well said.

Thanks.

--
Kier