Mystery: Why did an old system stop working?

Andrew Gideon <c182driver1.RemoveThis@gideon.org> wrote:
> It had no problem with various Redhat-based distributions up to and
> including Fedora Core 3. After this, it stopped being able to go through
> the installation process.

Did your computer break or did Fedora Core break? Are you still able to
install Fedora Core 3?

regards Henrik
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On Fri, 12 Jun 2009 08:09:58 +0200, Henrik Carlqvist wrote:

> Did your computer break or did Fedora Core break? Are you still able to
> install Fedora Core 3?

Sorry I wasn't clear. Yes, FC3 still installed before I started playing
with the system (ie. even with the Promise RAID card and such). I've not
tried it in the simpler configuration though. I will, Just To Be Sure.

- Andrew

On Fri, 12 Jun 2009 17:18:06 +0000, Andrew Gideon wrote:

> (ie. even with the Promise RAID card and such).

My understanding is that Linux doesn't do hardware raid. software only.
If this is one of these IDe raid cards, it might be the card. Can you try
another brand/model ?

terryc wrote:

> On Fri, 12 Jun 2009 17:18:06 +0000, Andrew Gideon wrote:
>
>> (ie. even with the Promise RAID card and such).
>
> My understanding is that Linux doesn't do hardware raid. software only.
> If this is one of these IDe raid cards, it might be the card. Can you
> try another brand/model ?

Your "understanding" is wrong
--
"Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend: and inside a dog,
it's too dark to read." -- Groucho Marx

On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 14:25:45 +0200, Peter Köhlmann wrote:

>> My understanding is that Linux doesn't do hardware raid. software only.
>> If this is one of these IDe raid cards, it might be the card. Can you
>> try another brand/model ?
>
> Your "understanding" is wrong

But it doesn't matter. That card was there just for extra IDE ports; the
disks were configured as JBOD. And, as a part of my more recent
experimenting, I've removed that card anyway.

- Andrew

On Fri, 12 Jun 2009 17:18:06 +0000, Andrew Gideon wrote:

> On Fri, 12 Jun 2009 08:09:58 +0200, Henrik Carlqvist wrote:
>
>> Did your computer break or did Fedora Core break? Are you still able to
>> install Fedora Core 3?
>
> Sorry I wasn't clear. Yes, FC3 still installed before I started playing
> with the system (ie. even with the Promise RAID card and such). I've
> not tried it in the simpler configuration though. I will, Just To Be
> Sure.
>

Fedora 3 has no problem on this system with two disks, master and slave,
on a single IDE port on the motherboard.

I'm going to next try Fedora 4 to confirm that it fails as I remember it.

- Andrew

On Tue, 16 Jun 2009 20:56:44 +0000, Andrew Gideon wrote:

> I'm going to next try Fedora 4 to confirm that it fails as I remember
> it.

Fedora 4 works. So there's some "breaking point" between this and CentOS
5. Now to find it...

Andrew

On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 14:25:45 +0200, Peter Köhlmann wrote:

> terryc wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 12 Jun 2009 17:18:06 +0000, Andrew Gideon wrote:
>>
>>> (ie. even with the Promise RAID card and such).
>>
>> My understanding is that Linux doesn't do hardware raid. software only.
>> If this is one of these IDe raid cards, it might be the card. Can you
>> try another brand/model ?
>
> Your "understanding" is wrong

Ok, would you name some hardware raid cards that it works with?
I have a pile of redundant and ancient, hence inexpensive hard disks. I
even have racks of them. So I'd love build a hardware drive RAID array
from them.






--
Once again, our prime minister Kevin Rudd brings stability to the nation
by reassurring the nation that one law still exists for the rich
and another for the poor. After a personal visit;
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/04/27/2553855.htm

On Mon, 15 Jun 2009 19:42:49 +0000, Andrew Gideon wrote:

> On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 14:25:45 +0200, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
>
>>> My understanding is that Linux doesn't do hardware raid. software
>>> only. If this is one of these IDe raid cards, it might be the card.
>>> Can you try another brand/model ?
>>
>> Your "understanding" is wrong
>
> But it doesn't matter. That card was there just for extra IDE ports;

That is how I use them under Linux.
They are a PITA for a fresh install as they keep overriding the bios boot
setting (off Cdrom) for both base IDE and SCSI. They were an add on to an
already installed that system that became the file server.

On Wednesday 17 June 2009 04:59, someone identifying as *terryc* wrote
in /comp.os.linux.hardware:/

> On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 14:25:45 +0200, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
>
>> terryc wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 12 Jun 2009 17:18:06 +0000, Andrew Gideon wrote:
>>>
>>>> (ie. even with the Promise RAID card and such).
>>>
>>> My understanding is that Linux doesn't do hardware raid. software
>>> only. If this is one of these IDe raid cards, it might be the card.
>>> Can you try another brand/model ?
>>
>> Your "understanding" is wrong
>
> Ok, would you name some hardware raid cards that it works with?

Anything from Adaptec, although the SCSI host adapter cards with
HostRAID need an additional proprietary driver - which is available for
download at Adaptec's website - for the RAID functionality to work.

> I have a pile of redundant and ancient, hence inexpensive hard disks.
> I even have racks of them. So I'd love build a hardware drive RAID
> array from them.

Despite the somewhat rude remark by Peter Köhlman, he was right. You
obviously misunderstand the definitions of hardware RAID and software
RAID. So I'll try to enlighten you a bit here...

A true hardware RAID adapter does all the RAID work in hardware, using a
dedicated (and typically RISC-style) processor on the adapter card
itself. From the operating system point of view, all it needs is a
driver for the adapter card - and in this, it isn't any more "special"
than for a regular IDE hard disk connected to the onboard IDE
controller, because that too requires a driver. The operating system
sees all disks in the RAID array as being a single disk.

Software RAID - like Linux RAID - is where the operating system uses
individual disks - driven by their respective disk controller drivers
in the kernel - to set up a RAID array *within* the operating system.
This means that the kernel will do all the RAID stuff, like mirroring
and/or striping and parity calculation.

That which *you* refer to as "hardware RAID" is not hardware RAID but
hardware-assisted software RAID. In this case, the RAID functionality
is taken care of by the kernel, but with certain functions assisted in
hardware. This is the cheap kind of RAID controller usually built into
the motherboards - e.g. nVidia's nvRAID solution - and typically
intended to be used with low-end hard disks, e.g. PATA and SATA.

The Linux kernel has only very limited support for this kind of
adapters, in the sense that it only supports a limited range of such
hardware-assisted software RAID solutions. However, the Linux kernel
does have full support - and usually out of the box - for most true
hardware RAID adapters - because most manufacturers offer their drivers
as GPL'ed code and this code can therefore be adopted into the vanilla
Linux kernel sources - and also provides for a very efficient software
RAID solution using whatever kind of hard disks - even disks of
different types.

--
*Aragorn*
(registered GNU/Linux user #223157)

On Thursday 18 June 2009 00:11, someone identifying as *Aragorn* wrote
in /comp.os.linux.hardware:/

> On Wednesday 17 June 2009 04:59, someone identifying as *terryc* wrote
> in /comp.os.linux.hardware:/
>
>> On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 14:25:45 +0200, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
>>
>>> terryc wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 12 Jun 2009 17:18:06 +0000, Andrew Gideon wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> (ie. even with the Promise RAID card and such).
>>>>
>>>> My understanding is that Linux doesn't do hardware raid. software
>>>> only. If this is one of these IDe raid cards, it might be the card.
>>>> Can you try another brand/model ?
>>>
>>> Your "understanding" is wrong
>>
>> Ok, would you name some hardware raid cards that it works with?
>
> Anything from Adaptec, although the SCSI host adapter cards with
> HostRAID need an additional proprietary driver - which is available
> for download at Adaptec's website - for the RAID functionality to
> work.

And then there's QLogic, LSI, 3Ware, etc., etc.


--
*Aragorn*
(registered GNU/Linux user #223157)

On Thu, 18 Jun 2009 00:11:12 +0200, Aragorn wrote:


>> Ok, would you name some hardware raid cards that it works with?
>
> Anything from Adaptec, although the SCSI host adapter cards with
> HostRAID need an additional proprietary driver - which is available for
> download at Adaptec's website - for the RAID functionality to work.
>
>> I have a pile of redundant and ancient, hence inexpensive hard disks. I
>> even have racks of them. So I'd love build a hardware drive RAID array
>> from them.
>
> Despite the somewhat rude remark by Peter Köhlman, he was right. You
> obviously misunderstand the definitions of hardware RAID and software
> RAID. So I'll try to enlighten you a bit here...

Oh no, I understand it exactly. I have both a Adaptec ARQ-1130c and a
Mylex MSMT591 card in front of me atm. These are two different types of
hardware raid cards.

The adaptec fits into a special slot nice little boxen with inbuilt rack
that will take 5x9gb hard disks as a hardware raid array. If I can get
the driver for it, then I might one day biuld it up as such.

The Mylex was the interface card to a pair of chained racks that each
held 12 x 18Gb (80Mb/sec) scsi hard disks. You configured the raid in the
Mylex bios.

The racks were scrapped as the cost of the cables to link them together
was more than I could buy a replacement IDE drive of the same total
capacity. I just don't have a need for hard disk space at the speed and
"reliability". not to mention the eight power sockets it all required.

And I'm well experienced on building software raid on Dec & Compaq
arrays, but these days 7x1Gb/2Gb/4Gb isn't that useful.