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MusicXML 2.0?

 
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Samuel Thibault

External


Since: May 08, 2009
Posts: 45



(Msg. 1) Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 3:20 pm
Post subject: MusicXML 2.0?
Archived from groups: linux>debian>legal (more info?)

Hello,

I would like to package a software which includes some dtd modules
licensed under the MusicXML 2.0 license [1]. It looks like a free
license, but something catched my attention:

`No one other than Recordare LLC has the right to modify this
Agreement.'

which I understand as not allowing re-licensing.

The thing is: these dtd modules are referenced to by a GPL dtd (which
also references an MPL 1.1 dtd), like this:

<!ENTITY % laDtdMusique SYSTEM "partwise.dtd" >
<!ENTITY % laDtdXHTML SYSTEM "xhtml11.dtd" >

The dtd is eventually used by a GPL/LGPL java application. My concern
is whether the GPL has to propagate down to the MusicXML 2.0 dtd being
used, as that would require re-licensing. What do people think about
it?

Samuel
[1]: http://www.recordare.com/dtds/license.html


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Anthony W. Youngman

External


Since: Mar 25, 2009
Posts: 4



(Msg. 2) Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:20 am
Post subject: Re: MusicXML 2.0? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

In message <20090628182025.GF14780.RemoveThis@const.famille.thibault.fr>, Samuel
Thibault <sthibault.RemoveThis@debian.org> writes
>Hello,
>
>I would like to package a software which includes some dtd modules
>licensed under the MusicXML 2.0 license [1]. It looks like a free
>license, but something catched my attention:
>
>`No one other than Recordare LLC has the right to modify this
>Agreement.'
>
>which I understand as not allowing re-licensing.

Err, no.

The GPL does exactly the same thing, except not explicitly. As I
understand it, Recordare are saying "these are the terms we are making
this stuff available to you on, and only we can change those terms". If
I make stuff available to you under the GPL, then no-one other than me
has the right to change those terms (ie, in Recordare's words, "modify
this agreement").

Oh - and the GPL does NOT allow re-licensing, either! What it allows you
to do (and what this licence probably does - I haven't analysed it) is
to add code under a compatible licence. You haven't changed the licence
on the existing code, so the derived work is only distributable on those
terms which intersect the two licences. What the GPL demands here is
that the GPL always be a subset of the intersect, so that anybody can
safely assume the GPL applies to the whole work.
>
>The thing is: these dtd modules are referenced to by a GPL dtd (which
>also references an MPL 1.1 dtd), like this:
>
><!ENTITY % laDtdMusique SYSTEM "partwise.dtd" >
><!ENTITY % laDtdXHTML SYSTEM "xhtml11.dtd" >
>
>The dtd is eventually used by a GPL/LGPL java application. My concern
>is whether the GPL has to propagate down to the MusicXML 2.0 dtd being
>used, as that would require re-licensing. What do people think about
>it?

These references are "executed" by the user, so actually I would say
that the GPL is irrelevant here - the GPL does not place any
restrictions on the end user, and the files being distributed, while
they *reference* other GPL files, they do not *contain* GPL code
therefore they are "mere aggregation" as far as the GPL and copyright
law goes.

Oh - and as I said - the GPL does *not* *permit* re-licensing, so this
entire argument has to be flawed, anyway.
>
>Samuel
>[1]: http://www.recordare.com/dtds/license.html
>
I think you need a little deeper understanding of the GPL. Read, learn
and inwardly digest the part where it says "when you pass on a copy that
you have received, the recipient receives a licence from the original
copyright holder" (yes I know that's not an exact quote). That -
*intentionally* - cuts the distributor out of the loop as far as
copyright law is concerned. So if you modify a GPL program and then pass
it on, any licences, restrictions, whatever that you apply, are ONLY
relevant in so far as they apply to stuff for which *you* hold the
copyright.

Cheers,
Wol
--
Anthony W. Youngman - anthony.RemoveThis@thewolery.demon.co.uk


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MJ Ray

External


Since: Mar 11, 2007
Posts: 148



(Msg. 3) Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:20 am
Post subject: Re: MusicXML 2.0? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Francesco Poli <frx.RemoveThis@firenze.linux.it> wrote:
> On Sun, 28 Jun 2009 23:45:00 +0200 Francesco Poli wrote:
> > A. DEFINITIONS
> [...]
> > "Original Program" means the original version of the software
> > accompanying this Agreement as released by Recordare LLC, including
> > source code, object code and documentation, if any.
> >
> > "Program" means the Original Program and Contributions.
> [...]
> > Title to copyright in the Program will at all times remain with
> > Copyright Holder.
> [...]
>
> Does this mean that Recordare LLC imposes transfer of copyright on
> Contributions from Contributors to Recordare LLC, as a condition of the
> grant of license?

I think that's accurate: was the old QPL the best case of this
problem, or is there a stronger argument?

The license transfer problem asked about in the thread opener doesn't
cause problems because the licence seems to be to all recipients ever.

Hope that helps,
--
MJR/slef
My Opinion Only: see http://people.debian.org/~mjr/
Please follow http://www.uk.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct


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Samuel Thibault

External


Since: May 08, 2009
Posts: 45



(Msg. 4) Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 5:20 pm
Post subject: Re: MusicXML 2.0? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

I now realize that I had never received the follow-ups to my mail.
Please keep me in Cc.

Anthony W. Youngman wrote:
> Samuel Thibault, le Sun 28 Jun 2009 20:20:25 +0200, a écrit :
> > I would like to package a software which includes some dtd modules
> > licensed under the MusicXML 2.0 license [1]. It looks like a free
> > license, but something catched my attention:
> >
> > `No one other than Recordare LLC has the right to modify this
> > Agreement.'
> >
> > which I understand as not allowing re-licensing.
>
> Err, no.

?!

> The GPL does exactly the same thing, except not explicitly. As I
> understand it, Recordare are saying "these are the terms we are
> making this stuff available to you on, and only we can change those
> terms". If I make stuff available to you under the GPL, then no-one
> other than me has the right to change those terms (ie, in Recordare's
> words, "modify this agreement").

Yes, that's what I call not allowing re-licensing. Unlike BSD for
instance.

> Oh - and the GPL does NOT allow re-licensing, either!

Sure.

> What it allows you to do (and what this licence probably does - I
> haven't analysed it) is to add code under a compatible licence. You
> haven't changed the licence on the existing code, so the derived
> work is only distributable on those terms which intersect the two
> licences. What the GPL demands here is that the GPL always be a subset
> of the intersect, so that anybody can safely assume the GPL applies to
> the whole work.

And the problem that can come is that MusicXML does not allow to be
distributed under other terms, and thus we're not able to include GPL so
as to have the intersection contain GPL.

> > The thing is: these dtd modules are referenced to by a GPL dtd (which
> > also references an MPL 1.1 dtd), like this:
> >
> > <!ENTITY % laDtdMusique SYSTEM "partwise.dtd" >
> > <!ENTITY % laDtdXHTML SYSTEM "xhtml11.dtd" >
> >
> > The dtd is eventually used by a GPL/LGPL java application. My concern
> > is whether the GPL has to propagate down to the MusicXML 2.0 dtd being
> > used, as that would require re-licensing. What do people think about
> > it?
>
> These references are "executed" by the user, so actually I would say that the GPL is irrelevant here -

Ok, that's what I wanted to know.

> Oh - and as I said - the GPL does *not* *permit* re-licensing, so this
> entire argument has to be flawed, anyway.

Sure, I'm *not* talking about re-licensing the GPL part, but about
re-licensing the MusicXML part so that it contains the GPL in order to
become compatible.

> I think you need a little deeper understanding of the GPL. Read,
> learn and inwardly digest the part where it says "when you pass on
> a copy that you have received, the recipient receives a licence
> from the original copyright holder" (yes I know that's not an exact
> quote). That - *intentionally* - cuts the distributor out of the loop
> as far as copyright law is concerned. So if you modify a GPL program
> and then pass it on, any licences, restrictions, whatever that you
> apply, are ONLY relevant in so far as they apply to stuff for which
> *you* hold the copyright.

I don't understand what makes you think I haven't understood that.

Samuel


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