Bug#560182: joe: personal ~/.joerc is not used but /etc/jo..

Josip Rodin <joy RemoveThis @debbugs.entuzijast.net> writes:

> On Wed, Dec 09, 2009 at 03:52:57PM +0200, jaalto wrote:
>> Package: joe
>> Version: 3.7-1
>> Severity: normal
>>
>>
>> TEST
>>
>> joe /tmp/test.txt
>> Warning: /etc/joe/joerc is newer than your /home/foo/.joerc.
>> You should update or delete /home/foo/.joerc
>> Hit enter to continue with /etc/joe/joerc
>>
>> Program should always prefer $HOME dot files over /etc.
>
> It's warning you that you have to verify that your local syntax is
> up to date, because if it's not, your joe may become broken.
> Once you do that, even if you make no changes, just touch the file and
> the check condition will no longer trigger.
>
> The check is valid, but if you wish to update the verbiage, please suggest.

There a many problems

- The program should never use the /etc no mattet how broken users setup
is. If the user's setup cannot be used, it should simply die with a
proper error message.

- The use of timestamp is not an indication of an obsolete setup.

- There is no need to notify user about new file in /etc because the
upgrades always possibly bring new files. Every user can consult
the documentation about new features from the manual pages.

About the message

- It is okay to display a warning on erros, or unknown variables, possibly
obsoleted in "joerc". Simply send them to stderr for capturing with
"2> joe-messages.log"

- Program should not pause for extra user input.

The problem becomes widespread if every program suddenly started
announcing

"new setup in /etc" <beep> "did you notice it?" <pause fr user input>

Just simpley start the program and display only errors to stderr.

Jari



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On Wed, Dec 09, 2009 at 05:15:09PM +0200, Jari Aalto wrote:
> >> joe /tmp/test.txt
> >> Warning: /etc/joe/joerc is newer than your /home/foo/.joerc.
> >> You should update or delete /home/foo/.joerc
> >> Hit enter to continue with /etc/joe/joerc
> >>
> >> Program should always prefer $HOME dot files over /etc.
> >
> > It's warning you that you have to verify that your local syntax is
> > up to date, because if it's not, your joe may become broken.
> > Once you do that, even if you make no changes, just touch the file and
> > the check condition will no longer trigger.
> >
> > The check is valid, but if you wish to update the verbiage, please suggest.
>
> There a many problems
>
> - The program should never use the /etc no mattet how broken users setup
> is. If the user's setup cannot be used, it should simply die with a
> proper error message.

It does that, arguably better - it gives you a warning message and falls
back to the defaults.

> - The use of timestamp is not an indication of an obsolete setup.

It's just an unreliable indication.

> - There is no need to notify user about new file in /etc because the
> upgrades always possibly bring new files. Every user can consult
> the documentation about new features from the manual pages.

joe's authors thought it's better to inform the user explicitly.
It's erring on the side of caution, and I don't object to it.
If you wish to take it up with them, please e-mail
joe-editor-general.DeleteThis@lists.sourceforge.net and/or file a ticket in the
upstream tracker at http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=23475

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forwarded 560182 https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=2911550&group_id=2347...tid=378
thanks,

C.f. Debian bug http://bugs.debian.org/560182

Josip Rodin <joy.TakeThisOut@debbugs.entuzijast.net> writes:

> On Wed, Dec 09, 2009 at 05:15:09PM +0200, Jari Aalto wrote:
>> >> joe /tmp/test.txt
>> >> Warning: /etc/joe/joerc is newer than your /home/foo/.joerc.
>> >> You should update or delete /home/foo/.joerc
>> >> Hit enter to continue with /etc/joe/joerc
>> >>
>> >> Program should always prefer $HOME dot files over /etc.
>> >
>> > It's warning you that you have to verify that your local syntax is
>> > up to date, because if it's not, your joe may become broken.
>> > Once you do that, even if you make no changes, just touch the file and
>> > the check condition will no longer trigger.
>> >
>> > The check is valid, but if you wish to update the verbiage, please suggest.
>>
>> There a many problems
>>
>> - The program should never use the /etc no mattet how broken users setup
>> is. If the user's setup cannot be used, it should simply die with a
>> proper error message.
>
> It does that, arguably better - it gives you a warning message and falls
> back to the defaults.

The program currently overrides user's settings in every case when the
timestamp differs. This is not correct behavior.

The program should refuse to start if the setup cannot be parsed. But
there is no error here.

>> - There is no need to notify user about new file in /etc because the
>> upgrades always possibly bring new files. Every user can consult
>> the documentation about new features from the manual pages.
>
> joe's authors thought it's better to inform the user explicitly.
> It's erring on the side of caution, and I don't object to it.

"Side of caution"? Have more similar of these kind of "checks" and
we have soon the "The Windows (tm) experience"

There is a manual page to document the chnages. There is a NEWS files to
announce changes. It's much clearer for programs to follow the standard
procedures:

- If setup cannot be parsed, exit with status code and print an error.
- Otherwise continue with stadard parsing rules: user's settings first
in $HOME. If not dound, use system defaults.

It's a good to find out that a mere upgrade causes next version to
<blink> and <beep> and <pause> ... for nothing; when setup is not
broken.

Jari



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On Wed, Dec 09, 2009 at 07:42:29PM +0200, Jari Aalto wrote:
> > It's erring on the side of caution, and I don't object to it.
>
> "Side of caution"? Have more similar of these kind of "checks" and
> we have soon the "The Windows (tm) experience"

Having just gone through a BIOS update because of and from Windows, which
caused my laptop's BIOS to wedge itself without much recourse, until I
manually disconnected the CMOS battery in order to clear old settings that
seemed to bother it - I just can't force myself to agree with you right now

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