Bug#241333: policy mentions that changelogs should be utf-..

On Thu, 1 Apr 2004, Bill Allombert wrote:

> On Wed, Mar 31, 2004 at 04:02:52PM -0600, Adam Heath wrote:
> > <dpkg hat on>
> > Policy 3.6.0 included this in it's changelog:
> >
> > * [ACCEPTED]: Debian changelogs should be UTF-8 encoded. Changed the
> > wording from a should to a may; since a should would make an unknown
> > number of packages insta buggy. A reuest makes all these wishlist
> > bugs; we can raise the severity in a later version of policy.
> > closes: Bug#174982
> >
> > This is not supported by any tool in debian. Control files are ascii, 7-bit,
> > period. And, when generating the .changes for an upload, the changelog is
> > included, this means the changelog *must* be 7-bit ascii. Period.
> >
> > Please, remove this from policy.
>
> I hope you realise removing that item from policy will not suddenly lead to
> policy mandating the changelog to be 7-bit ascii.

Then change this bug into changing policy saying changelog and control *must*
be 7-bit ascii.


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Quoting Adam Heath (doogie@debian.org):

> This is not supported by any tool in debian. Control files are ascii, 7-bit,
> period. And, when generating the .changes for an upload, the changelog is
> included, this means the changelog *must* be 7-bit ascii. Period.

I find a bit surprising that this bug emerges now....while Debian
Installer packages, for instance, use UTF-8 encoded changelogs for
months. As far as I know, Debian Installer builds, propagates and even
works.....packages are installed properly even when their changelogs
contain the names of these silly morons wearing names that can't be
written properly using us-ascii....

So, what is the exact rationale of this, except maybe a pre-April's
fool troll?





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On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 16:02:52 -0600 (CST), Adam Heath <doogie DeleteThis @debian.org> said:

> This is not supported by any tool in debian.

Well, by itself, this is not a problem: Policy is not
packaging system documentation.

> Control files are ascii, 7-bit, period. And, when generating the
> .changes for an upload, the changelog is included, this means the
> changelog *must* be 7-bit ascii. Period.

Could you explain to me the nature and magnitude of the
problems encountered? I have a number of packages installed which
have non ascii chars in the changelog, and there appears to have been
no issues.

>> dpkg hat off>

Also, why are you so sure parsecdata can't handle non-ascii
chars? You do seem to be putting the file handle in binmode.
Starting from Perl 5.6.0, Perl has had the capacity to handle Unicode
natively. Starting from Perl 5.8.0, the use of "use utf8" is no
longer necessary.


Indeed, the fix seems blindingly simple:
in outputclose, add this:

binmode(STDOUT, ":utf8");


Perhaps I should try putting on a dpkg hat, since a simple fix
like this is eschewed in favour of changing established policy and
causing a lot of packages to be changed.

manoj
with no hat on.
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Manoj Srivastava <srivasta DeleteThis @debian.org> <http://www.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/>
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Hi,

On Thu, 2004-04-01 at 04:09:51 -0600, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
> On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 16:02:52 -0600 (CST), Adam Heath said:
> > This is not supported by any tool in debian.

> > Control files are ascii, 7-bit, period. And, when generating the
> > .changes for an upload, the changelog is included, this means the
> > changelog *must* be 7-bit ascii. Period.

Please feel free to close this bug report, if there's any problem on
dpkg when handling UTF-8, that should be considered a bug in dpkg.

(Not closing myself as I'm neither the submitter, nor the maintainer).

regards,
guillem


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retitle 241333 require UTF-8 encoding in changelogs and control files
thanks

Guillem Jover <guillem.TakeThisOut@debian.org> writes:
> On Thu, 2004-04-01 at 04:09:51 -0600, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
>> On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 16:02:52 -0600 (CST), Adam Heath said:
>> > This is not supported by any tool in debian.

>> > Control files are ascii, 7-bit, period. And, when generating the
>> > .changes for an upload, the changelog is included, this means the
>> > changelog *must* be 7-bit ascii. Period.

> Please feel free to close this bug report, if there's any problem on
> dpkg when handling UTF-8, that should be considered a bug in dpkg.

> (Not closing myself as I'm neither the submitter, nor the maintainer).

Actually, at this point, I think it's time to upgrade the severity of
this in Policy. Currently, we say:

It is recommended that the entire changelog be encoded in the UTF-8
(http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/cgi-bin/rfc/rfc2279.html) encoding of
Unicode (http://www.unicode.org/).[1]

(And we say it in an appendix, which is lame, but this is something that
we can fix as part of the restructuring that I'm hoping Manoj will write
up. *grin*)

lintian has warned about non-UTF-8 changelog files for years, and at this
point there are only 95 packages left in the archive that don't have UTF-8
changelogs. I see no reason not to upgrade this to a should, at the very
least, and I can see a strong argument for a must.

Comments?

Also, while we're looking at this, where are we on UTF-8 support in
debian/control? Is it now time to similarly require that all control
files be encoded in UTF-8? There are only 11 packages in the archive with
non-UTF-8 control files.

--
Russ Allbery (rra@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>


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On Wed, 04 Jul 2007, Russ Allbery wrote:
> Comments?

Pretty much all of the tools that read debian/control assume that it
is in UTF-8, including the BTS, so even though it isn't a mandate of
policy, it's effectively mandated by the tools that actually use these
files.

> Also, while we're looking at this, where are we on UTF-8 support in
> debian/control? Is it now time to similarly require that all control
> files be encoded in UTF-8? There are only 11 packages in the archive with
> non-UTF-8 control files.

Likewise for control.


Don Armstrong

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have exhausted all other possibilities.
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Don Armstrong <don.DeleteThis@debian.org> writes:
> On Wed, 04 Jul 2007, Russ Allbery wrote:

>> Comments?

> Pretty much all of the tools that read debian/control assume that it is
> in UTF-8, including the BTS, so even though it isn't a mandate of
> policy, it's effectively mandated by the tools that actually use these
> files.

I assume you mean debian/changelog here.

>> Also, while we're looking at this, where are we on UTF-8 support in
>> debian/control? Is it now time to similarly require that all control
>> files be encoded in UTF-8? There are only 11 packages in the archive
>> with non-UTF-8 control files.

> Likewise for control.

I think it may be time to talk to the release time about making non-UTF-8
changelog or control files RC. Maybe we can finally put this transition
to bed for lenny (and upgrade Policy correspondingly to a must).

I'll mail debian-release.

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Russ Allbery (rra@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>


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On Wed, 04 Jul 2007, Russ Allbery wrote:
> Don Armstrong <don.DeleteThis@debian.org> writes:
> > Pretty much all of the tools that read debian/control assume that it is
> > in UTF-8, including the BTS, so even though it isn't a mandate of
> > policy, it's effectively mandated by the tools that actually use these
> > files.
>
> I assume you mean debian/changelog here.

Right.


Don Armstrong

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"We're less horrible than a root canal with a cold chisel."
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* Russ Allbery (rra@debian.org) [070704 20:05]:
> I think it may be time to talk to the release time about making non-UTF-8
> changelog or control files RC. Maybe we can finally put this transition
> to bed for lenny (and upgrade Policy correspondingly to a must).

I doubt I'd like another class of RC bugs jump out, but calling that a
release goal seems logical to me somehow. (But this isn't the offical
blessing of course.)


Cheers,
Andi
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